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From Davanum Srinivas <d...@yahoo.com>
Subject RE: web services in C++
Date Fri, 23 May 2003 02:19:09 GMT
Graham,
Which version of Axis did you guys use? Is it possible to publish the test cases, so that
we can
run the tests against the latest cvs code?

Users,
Here's a reminder...Axis needs is an open source project with NO full-time developers (AFAIK).
We
need folks to pitch in to improve Axis's performance. If you are willing and able, just submit
patches (http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?AxisProjectPages/SubmitPatches) and
get
active on axis-dev@ mailing list.

Thanks,
dims

--- Graham Glass <graham@themindelectric.com> wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>  
> For the record, as far as GLUE goes, our benchmarks also do not support
> Mark's findings.
>  
> http://www.themindelectric.com/glue/index.html?../products.header.html
> <http://www.themindelectric.com/glue/index.html?../products.header.html&
> benchmarks.html&../bottom.html> &benchmarks.html&../bottom.html
>  
> Cheers,
> Graham
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yakulis, Ross (Ross) [mailto:yakulis@avaya.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 6:10 PM
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> Subject: RE: web services in C++
>  
> Peter asked my to clarify my comment.  I with draw the comment on price
> and leave it at that and that for what ever reason we have chosen to use
> Axis until it we hit an impassable road block.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yakulis, Ross (Ross) 
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 2:53 PM
> To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
> Subject: RE: web services in C++
> Peter's comments are true based on my performance testing (I am not
> affiliated with any web service vendor), however, that comes at a high
> $$ cost.  We looked at Systinet but opted for Axis as Systinet was too
> pricey.
>  
> Is there an ongoing concerted effort to continually improve Axis
> performance?
>  
> Ross
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Lacey [mailto:placey@wanderingbarque.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 2:45 PM
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: web services in C++
> Full disclosure, I work for Systinet the makers of WASP.
> 
> In reference to Mark Volkmann's assertion that Glue and WASP do much
> worse than Axis when processing large (>20K) messages.  Our own
> benchmarking (unbiased, I assure you) demonstrates that for all message
> types, for all message sizes, and for all numbers of simultaneous
> clients (threads), WASP (I can't speak for Glue) routinely outperforms
> Axis.  In fact, when processing an array of structures - each structure
> holding an int, a double, and the String "Systinet Benchmarks" - Axis
> fell over and died somewhere between 100 & 125 simultaneous connections.
> Before this, though, WASP was 250 times faster than Axis on average.
> WASP was processing roughly 43 of these 100 element arrays per second
> while Axis was procsessing 12.
> 
> Our benchmarks were performed on a big ol' 4-way Solaris 8 box with 32GB
> of RAM and using the 1.4.1_02 JVM with the WebLogic 8.1 servlet engine.
> The Axis tests were run using Doc/Literal and Axis using RPC/Encoded.  I
> can't find the WASP RPC/Encoded numbers, though they are generally
> superior to the Doc/Lit numbers.
> 
> Mark, Michael, I would be happy to share the results of our benchmarks
> with you.  My email address should be attached to this reply, but if not
> I can be reached at lacey-AT-systinet.com.  If you want, I can also
> examine your benchmarking code and environment to help discern what
> might be the reason for the results you're seeing.
> 
> To answer Michael's question.  The numbers above (good or bad) are not
> necessarily reflective of message processing when dealing with
> attachements.  These numbers are a reflection of (among other things)
> the SOAP stack's XML/Java serialization.  Regarding WASP; our Java and
> C++ products support MIME attachements.  In addition the C++ product
> supports DIME attachements today, and the Java product will in June.
> During our tests we wanted to see what (if any) sized attachment would
> cause WASP to fail.  We got up to a 165MB MIME attachment without a
> hiccup.  We have not tried anything larger, but are confident WASP will
> continue to perform.  This is not to say that SOAP with Attachments is
> the right design for you, but to say that should you go this route WASP
> could undoubtedly handle the load.
> 
> I should also note that I in particular and Systinet in general hold the
> open source and Apache communities in the highest regard.  The above
> statements are not meant to disparage the valuable and exciting work
> being done here.  Please view these benchmarking results as neutral, and
> this message as an attempt to set the record straight regarding WASP
> performance.
> 
> Regards,
> Pete
> 
> Volkmann, Mark wrote:
> 
> 
> I don't have experience with that, but it's my understanding from
> reading the posts of others that when you are sending large amounts of
> binary data, attachments are the way to go.  If you try to stuff it in
> the actual SOAP message it will consume more space than putting it in an
> attachment even if you don't compress it.  This has something to do with
> special encoding of the data that must be done when the data is in the
> SOAP message.  Perhaps someone can more clearly explain this.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Allen, Michael E. [mailto:Michael.Allen@ACNielsen.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 1:39 PM
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> Subject: RE: web services in C++
> That's *very* interesting!  I am planning on returning some results as
> compressed attachments that could be 100s of Mb large... does this imply
> that I would do better using SOAP for messaging only and find another
> way to actually deliver the data?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Volkmann, Mark [mailto:Mark.Volkmann@AGEDWARDS.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 1:24 PM
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> Subject: RE: web services in C++
> In my testing, message size matters a lot when it comes to performance
> of various web service toolkits.  GLUE and WASP do much better than Axis
> for small messages, but in my testing they do much worse than Axis for
> large messages.  By large I mean over 20k.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anne Thomas Manes [mailto:anne@manes.net]
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 9:37 AM
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: web services in C++
> Michael,
>  
> You're right -- Axis can only invoke methods on Java classes, so to use
> Axis, you'll need to create Java wrappers. You'll take a hit in
> performance if you do this.
>  
> There are three SOAP systems for portable C++:
> - gSOAP
> - Systinet WASP
> - Rogue Wave LEIF
>  
> All of them support significantly better performance than Axis (or any
> other Java implementation).
>  
> Anne
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Allen, <mailto:Michael.Allen@ACNielsen.com>  Michael E. 
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org 
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 10:24 AM
> Subject: web services in C++
>  
> Not exactly on the topic, but I think this group must have dealt with
> this issue.  What is the best way to incorporate web services written in
> C++?  I have used gSoap, but I am would like something that integrates
> with Axis.  I believe I am right in assuming that Axis can only directly
> make calls on Java classes (is that right?).  I suppose I could right
> Java wrappers for my C++ classes (are there any tools to automate
> that?), but I'd like to know if there is a cleaner/more-apache like way
> to do things.
>  
> Btw, my need for C++ is motivated both by some performance concerns and
> even more by needing to use legacy systems.
>  
> Thanks,
> Michael
> 
> 
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=====
Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/

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