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From Michael Yuan <>
Subject Re: Web Services book
Date Thu, 13 Mar 2003 00:26:01 GMT

> I wrote a book on Ant with Erik Hatcher last year (product placement:java
> development with ant, You can look at our
> progress through Ant's CVS log and the bugzilla system: we found oodles

I found Erik and Steve's ANT book excellent. Before I read that book, I
was wondering how someone could write a 700 page book on a simple tool
like ANT. Well, as it turns out, the book is much more than ANT. It is a
mini-J2EE (as well as Open Source tools/frameworks) tutorial and
everything is nicely tied together using ANT. A chapter of that book
discusses Axis. I wish it could discuss Sun's JAX-RPC too.

Anyway, I highly recommend that book. Manning has been publishing a lot of
excellent books these days.

Read Michael Yuan's technology articles
Dr. Dobbs Journal, JavaWorld, IBM developerWorks and more ...

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Steve Loughran wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paris Apostolopoulos" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 13:05
> Subject: RE: Web Services book
> >I should point out that some of the Irani and Bashar is wrong, because
> those bits in Axis havent ever worked. Example: Global Fault handling
> and lifecycles. If they'd >>>>  >written code to test these things, they
> would have noticed. The fact that they didnt, worries me. The source is
> there, why didnt they delve into it?
> >‘hat is true but its not the only book around that happens to have
> invalid and bad code..I can mention several other examples .Especially
> when it comes to the AXIS world where still things are being developed
> and the web services world is still 'under construction' , then it might
> be a bit normal. But I agree with you they shoould have tested the
> code..some of their mistakes in the code are quite...bad.
> In the open source world there is no such thing as stability. in
> particularly, with point releases on a regular basis and the new source
> visible, books visibly date faster than books against closed source, even if
> the effective lifespan is the same. (i.e. a book about .net1.0 is 100%
> accurate till .net1.1 ships, whereas OSS books slowly decay)
> But at the same time, there is an opportunity
> 1. you can see what is changing and revise the book to match, as you write
> it
> 2. you can file bugreps easily
> 3. you can fix things as you go along
> I wrote a book on Ant with Erik Hatcher last year (product placement: java
> development with ant, You can look at our
> progress through Ant's CVS log and the bugzilla system: we found oodles of
> issues and inconsistencies. We could have written about them, but it was
> often easier to fix the bug as that benefits more people. Oft times we'd
> write about something, then go back and fix it and rewrite stuff. Then other
> people would change things and we'd have to rewrite it. by the time we'd
> finished we'd been through every class in the 150K line project, edited
> their java doc comments and generally struggled to keep up to date with
> changes. But the end result was we froze the code on the day ant1.5 shipped,
> and the process we used to generate the reference appendix is going to be
> the future of ant's autogenerated documentation:
> In comparison the other books on ant (by ORA and sams) went for the rewrite
> of the documentation tactic, which takes a lot of drudge work and (in my
> biased opinion) doesnt add as much value. So the ORA ant book came out in
> may, six-eight weeks before ant1.5, yet was based on ant1.4. That was the
> wrong move, and you can see it in their amazon sales ranking, which is 1/10
> ours. But the third book, the sams one, is (mostly) up to date with ant1.5,
> yet it gets completely ignored, even though I do think it is better than the
> oreilly book. People do make brand driven choices, when they are not always
> appropriate.
> >>I hope Oreilly will have a book about Axis too!
> >>They are, but that doesnt guarantee quality. It guarantees some sales
> >regardless of quality,  but does not mean that it will be the perfect
> >book. That depends on the authors.
> >Well I tend to belive that Orelliy has more Java oriented books in
> >comparison with WROX and to tell you the truth most of my Java related
> >books happen to be Oreilly publications!
> I would recommend you should be ruthless and judge each book on its own
> merits.
> >I have read 2 other books from
> >Oreilly about Web services (Java and SOAP , Building Web services with
> >SOAP) , they were not bad but a bit abstract in some cases!
> There are at least two members of the Axis dev community working on axis
> books, including James Snell. As long as the authors are good at explaining
> themselves, they should be good books as the developers dont just understand
> the 'what' of axis, they will understand the why -the design decisions, the
> future options, etc, etc.
> >Anyway its not bad to have a range of available books about
> >AXIS..especially for the newbies.Because right now IMHO,..for the
> >absolute newbie  'AXIS the next generation of SOAP' is the best
> >available book!
> I agree.

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