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From "Pae Choi" <paec...@earthlink.net>
Subject Re: Document style web services
Date Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:50:41 GMT
Strange. ebXML MS is based on SOAP. Those two complement to each
other. It's just a higher transport than SOAP compare to SOAP over
HTTP, SMTP, or whatever. Why fight?


Pae




> <flame>
> This is a political issue between Microsoft and Sun. Just because senior
> management at these companies act like little boys in a school yard, it
> doesn't mean that WS-I is just some Microsoft puppet organization.
>
> There are plenty of other serious Java players that have board seats at
> WS-I. To wit: BEA, IBM, and Oracle. (also Fujitsu and HP) Microsoft only
has
> one seat on a board of 9 (soon to be 11).
>
> I think it was a serious mistake on the part of WS-I not to invite Sun to
be
> on the board. It certainly has had a significant impact on the group's
> credibility. But I can understand the reluctance of some of the players
(not
> just Microsoft) to invite them to play. Sun was very slow to get involved
> with Web services. For a very long time Sun was trying to undermine the
> entire SOAP/WSDL/UDDI infrastructure in favor of ebXML. (I know. I was at
> Sun at the time fighting in favor of SOAP.) Sun was being less than
> constructive in the standards efforts. Would you invite someone to be on
> your board if you had doubts about their good intentions?
>
> Almost all major web services contributions have been joint efforts by
> Microsoft and IBM. Once the specs have been published, the two of them
> invite others to join the work. I don't see a whole lot of Microsoft hoop
> jumping going on. I see constructive joint effort. Sun is as welcome to
join
> the effort as anyone else. I was very pleased to see them join WS-I. They
> certainly didn't win any points by standing in a corner and pouting
because
> they weren't picked first.
> </flame>
>
> Anne
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Marion.Morrison@sybase.com [mailto:Marion.Morrison@sybase.com]
> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 11:59 AM
> > To: axis-user@xml.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: Document style web services
> >
> >
> >
> > It may be old news, but its still true.  Some of us are getting tired of
> > being made to jump through hoops to accommodate Microsoft.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                     "Anne Thomas
> >
> >                     Manes"               To:
> > <axis-user@xml.apache.org>
> >                     <anne@manes.ne       cc:
> >
> >                     t>                   Subject:     RE:
> > Document style web services
> >
> >
> >                     11/21/2002
> >
> >                     05:01 PM
> >
> >                     Please respond
> >
> >                     to axis-user
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > That's old news.
> >
> > Sun is now a member of WS-I. WS-I has added two new seats to the
> > board, and
> > there will be a vote in March to elect the new board members. Let's hope
> > that Sun gets elected.
> > http://www.aspnews.com/news/article/0,,4191_1488041,00.html
> >
> > Anne
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dennis Sosnoski [mailto:dms@sosnoski.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 6:41 PM
> > > To: axis-user@xml.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Document style web services
> > >
> > >
> > > Anne Thomas Manes wrote:
> > >
> > > >WS-I has just published its Basic Profile
> > > >draft, which only supports document-style. Pretty much every
> > > SOAP vendor is
> > > >involved with WS-I, so it won't be long before all SOAP
implementations
> > > >generate document style by default.
> > > >
> > > I think WS-I has serious credibility problems, especially since it
came
> > > out that Microsoft's participation was conditional on Sun being
excluded
> > > from a major role in the organization. To quote from a Bill Gates memo
> > > in reference to WS-I which was made public during the antitrust trial
> > > (as reported in
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t288-s2110205,00.html,
> > > for one source): "I can live with this if we have the positioning
> > > clearly in our favour. In particular, Sun not being one of the
> > > movers/announcers/founding members." I'm sure that, as a participant
in
> > > WS-I, you're familiar with these issues, Anne. This credibility
problem
> > > is certainly going to influence how WS-I proposals are treated by the
> > > industry.
> > >
> > > If Sun becomes a full coequal participant in the WS-I organization
it'll
> > > go a long way toward establishing WS-I as a bona fide forum for
> > > supporting interoperability. Given Sun's ownership of Java and control
> > > over Java standards it's hard to take an organization that excludes
Sun
> > > seriously on these issues.
> > >
> > >   - Dennis
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


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