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From "Steve Loughran" <>
Subject Re: SOAP over JMS
Date Fri, 06 Sep 2002 21:42:06 GMT

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maciejewski, Vincent (GMI - NY SWAPS)" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: SOAP over JMS

> An intersting article that give reasons why what you are doing will be
important to the industry:
> Here is an exerpt:
>  Reliability and its attendant weaknesses have a common cause: the
Internet and, more specifically, the HTTP communication standard, which just
isn't a good fit for Web services.

well, it goes through firewalls and that is generally considered important
> The big issue with
> HTTP is that it is connectionless and eventless, and it can't handle
distributed transaction coordination the way common object request broker
architecture (CORBA) can.

that is a bogus argument, because distributed transactions dont necessarily
make full sense in a multi-agent B2B world. And if they do, the TX manager
has to roll back by reversing the transactions.

>In the middleware platforms of
> CORBA and COM (component object model), tightly coupled, internal software
development worlds, data delivery is guaranteed.

heh. So this paper says WS is no good because it isnt tightly coupled. Tight
coupling only works on a LAN where you own all the boxes and can update them
simultaneously. They dont scale to systems where you have to submit your
travel expenses to a box in belgium and the app gets unreliable under load.
Believe me, I've been there as an end user: big Corba, big COM, big RMI-IIOP
apps scare me.

JMS is about reliable async messaging, which deals with some of the
problems, but takes away the interop option.

>But the Web services world is loosely coupled-delivery isn't guaranteed. Or
> not yet anyway. Ted Schadler, a group director at Cambridge, Mass.-based
Forrester Research, compares HTTP to a telegraph line and says that the
machine-to-machine transactions in a Web services world
> require an open-line, telephone-like connection. Unfortunately, no one has
figured out how to do that yet.

oh look, a metaphor that doesnt really make sense.
telegraph line: async send only messages
open line: two way channel

http: two way channel

what we want is reliable async messaging in a *standard* way, because
without interop you dont gain enough. What we dont need is tight coupling.

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