Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-ws-axis-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 40183 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2008 21:06:15 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.2) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 1 Nov 2008 21:06:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 90701 invoked by uid 500); 1 Nov 2008 21:06:14 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-ws-axis-dev-archive@ws.apache.org Received: (qmail 90120 invoked by uid 500); 1 Nov 2008 21:06:12 -0000 Mailing-List: contact axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk Reply-To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org list-help: list-unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list axis-dev@ws.apache.org Received: (qmail 90098 invoked by uid 99); 1 Nov 2008 21:06:12 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:06:12 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of davanum@gmail.com designates 209.85.128.189 as permitted sender) Received: from [209.85.128.189] (HELO fk-out-0910.google.com) (209.85.128.189) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 01 Nov 2008 21:04:53 +0000 Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b27so1906550fka.0 for ; Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:05:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=5zf7unsGwOqa4Dr72UlZOIe6ZNWKc8Fa+BgBB7t4r6U=; b=R4jBqJMQ73a0SuqNhLMXHeHn9jA9NwGHymRxPMEQPuc5uD+CqdZQyu7J0wxfrOer/M Cg5hik+OhG0aZ9ptUCFof+OBDjKVznOAo4d3D/Oyz7tzwM5wOYg3uBwLNX1NV35v7sLY CxH/R+12OBhnmR+33GvU5aSDck/ikJLSx3Dr8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=temAoHSib4I41Dv57ae4pQpFOOOyPNVNz29vMsmORl7blYnp3OAwBsNcXjw/5koG2I xwPolANSn7hIDx3WiKd0/Uh2zlv0ce7bH/l5krS6F+i4wPMmhie/FPap/OX+0YSaNSuE BqNmsRcEMDZEtmuW3+oVEHPNaFvL/mu8bPqx4= Received: by 10.181.240.7 with SMTP id s7mr3589802bkr.110.1225573533049; Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.181.24.10 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 14:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19e0530f0811011405q27e215a6sa607395601d155f9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 17:05:32 -0400 From: "Davanum Srinivas" To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP Cc: general-ws In-Reply-To: <490C9126.8010206@opensource.lk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <19e0530f0810261629w59dd1c1bm61a18aa343763a40@mail.gmail.com> <4909FB1E.5010504@gmail.com> <12f870d60810301159n3c6148e6ld31330c28da4cc75@mail.gmail.com> <19e0530f0810301442n663756ebk66fe47a5b4db05e1@mail.gmail.com> <12f870d60810301507y179fe01dle59eca4c0808c95c@mail.gmail.com> <19e0530f0810301628k5ad46d8ucd06a6c15c91597a@mail.gmail.com> <490AC1BC.6080803@gmail.com> <19e0530f0810310311u455a8ec8q456e76cc2a64c10c@mail.gmail.com> <19e0530f0810310349q689c95falc6d255143a0378ab@mail.gmail.com> <490C9126.8010206@opensource.lk> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards. -- dims On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote: > Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch?? > > I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're > claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be". > > Sanjiva. > > Davanum Srinivas wrote: >> >> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model >> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a >> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV. >> >> -- dims >> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas >> wrote: >>> >>> Samisa, >>> >>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now >>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others. >>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active >>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the >>> board and to our end users. >>> >>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new >>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and >>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as >>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we >>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with >>> a TLP like focus. >>> >>> thanks, >>> dims >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Eran, >>>>> >>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and >>>>> then we can continue. >>>>> >>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that >>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP." >>>>> >>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo >>>>> sucks. What we have is not working. >>>>> - Really bad web sites >>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues >>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically >>>>> - There are many disjoint islands >>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other >>>>> projects in WS PMC. >>>>> >>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even >>>> after >>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain. >>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub >>>> projects, >>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a >>>> useless >>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects >>>> it >>>> has. >>>> >>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, >>>> I >>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that. >>>> >>>> Samisa... >>>>> >>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation, >>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please >>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after >>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the >>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their >>>>> experiences. >>>>> >>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the " >>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list >>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they >>>>> think and we'll take a vote. >>>>> >>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things >>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is >>>>> saying. >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> dims >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Chinthaka, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. >>>>>>> How >>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change >>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Problems : >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work >>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related >>>>>> projects >>>>>> like >>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc., >>>>>> >>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we >>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both >>>>>>> committers can have access). >>>>>>> >>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us >>>>>> to >>>>>> go >>>>>> for different TLPs? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. >>>>>>> Those >>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the >>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try >>>>>>> something new to see if it will work. >>>>>>> >>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix >>>>>> something >>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Samisa Abeysinghe >>>> >>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/ >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com > > -- > Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. > Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ > Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ > > Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org > > -- Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org