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From Sanjiva Weerawarana <sanj...@opensource.lk>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Date Sun, 02 Nov 2008 04:57:26 GMT
If you want to have a conversation about this topic then you should be 
ready to explain your statements. You have made bold statements about how 
things have gone down hill but yet you have no explanation except some 
attempt at a smart-ass response. Doesn't quite work.

Sanjiva.

Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
> 
> -- dims
> 
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sanjiva@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>>
>> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're
>> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>
>>> -- dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Samisa,
>>>>
>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>
>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>> <samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything
that
>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status
quo
>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>
>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
>>>>> after
>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>> projects,
>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a
>>>>> useless
>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
>>>>> it
>>>>> has.
>>>>>
>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
>>>>> I
>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask
the
>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what
they
>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>> <eran.chinthaka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate
them.
>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can
see if we
>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area
where both
>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates
us
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time
again.
>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be
taking the
>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose
we try
>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/

Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/

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