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Message-ID: <490B12A7.803@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:13:59 -0400
From: Deepal jayasinghe <deepalk@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
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> I am trying to be a bit more optimistic that shaking things up may
> help generate enthusiasm. Though given Paul's and other people's
> response. I may be doing more harm than good. If these projects are
> beyond salvage. So be it then. Question is should we even bother to
> ask everyone with a VOTE or just give up right now...
>   
VOTE is the final thing , and I still can not understand why most the
people do not want to make Axis2 TLP. In other projects they try a lot
to make a their project into TLP , here it is totally different. If no
one agree to make Axis2 TLP , I would suggest RENAME WS into Axis2. Just
having one Web service project inside Apache WS is not fair , I think
right approached would be for the people against making Axis2 a TLP
fight to get other Apache Web services project into Apache WS.

Deepal
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
> <samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>     
>>> Samisa,
>>>
>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>> board and to our end users.
>>>
>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>
>>>       
>> IMHO, sometimes, even getting an Axis2 release out of the door becomes a
>> rolling stone, and takes so much time. I am not really sure how it would be
>> to combine all those efforts together.
>>
>> Some of the long running and trivial issues like the crappy web site can be
>> easily solved, give some cycles. Even I can volunteer to do that. However,
>> you have to consider the long tail, if at all a TLP is to be taken up. Even
>> it might be a good idea to make Axis3 yes 3 a TLP, but not Axis2. Becase
>> Axis2 as a TLP would not be the same as the Axis2 as it used to be, both in
>> technical fronts as well as in non-technical fronts.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Samisa...
>>
>>     
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>> <samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>> projects,
>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
>>>> it
>>>> has.
>>>>
>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
>>>> I
>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>
>>>> Samisa...
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>
>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>> saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>> <eran.chinthaka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How
>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we
>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those
>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> --
>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> --
>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
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>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   


-- 
Thank you!


http://blogs.deepal.org


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