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From "Paul Fremantle" <pzf...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Date Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:48:48 GMT
You must have misunderstood me.

Paul

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
> Serves me right to open my mouth. Sorry won't happen again.
>
> -- dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Paul Fremantle <pzfreo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ah the glory days when you were Veep!
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>
>>> -- dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Samisa,
>>>>
>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>
>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>> <samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything
that
>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status
quo
>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
it
>>>>> has.
>>>>>
>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
I
>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask
the
>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what
they
>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>> <eran.chinthaka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate
them. How
>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
projects
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can
see if we
>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area
where both
>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates
us to
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time
again. Those
>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be
taking the
>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose
we try
>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
something
>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul Fremantle
>> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
>> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
>> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>>
>> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
>> paul@wso2.com
>>
>> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@ws.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
Apache Synapse PMC Chair
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair

blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com

"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com

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