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From "Paul Fremantle" <pzf...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Date Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:54:21 GMT
Ah the glory days when you were Veep!

Paul

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>
> -- dims
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Samisa,
>>
>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>> board and to our end users.
>>
>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>> a TLP like focus.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>> <samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Eran,
>>>>
>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>
>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>
>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects it
>>> has.
>>>
>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I
>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>
>>> Samisa...
>>>>
>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>> experiences.
>>>>
>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>
>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>> saying.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>> <eran.chinthaka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them.
How
>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>> like
>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>
>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if
we
>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both
>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us
to
>>>>> go
>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again.
Those
>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the
>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
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>



-- 
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
Apache Synapse PMC Chair
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair

blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com

"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com

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