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From "Davanum Srinivas" <dava...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Date Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:01:01 GMT
Serves me right to open my mouth. Sorry won't happen again.

-- dims

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Paul Fremantle <pzfreo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah the glory days when you were Veep!
>
> Paul
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>
>> -- dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Samisa,
>>>
>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>> board and to our end users.
>>>
>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>> <samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that
>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo
>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects,
>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
it
>>>> has.
>>>>
>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
I
>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>
>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>
>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the
>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>
>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they
>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>> saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>> <eran.chinthaka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate
them. How
>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see
if we
>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where
both
>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates
us to
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again.
Those
>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking
the
>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we
try
>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something
>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
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>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Paul Fremantle
> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>
> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> paul@wso2.com
>
> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
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>
>



-- 
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com

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