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From "Tom Jordahl" <>
Subject RE: [Axis2] 1.0-alpha release
Date Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:05:39 GMT

I understand that WSDL 2.0 is not finished yet, I am on the working
group.  So is Sanjiva.  But what I also know is that last call is over
and we are about to enter the stage where the specification must have
implementations before it can become final.  I am expecting that Axis2
will be one of those ground breaking implementations.  I would also note
that WS-Addressing is not final either and yet we are still implementing
that spec.

Adding preliminary WSDL 2.0 support  give lots of people reason to start
working/playing with Axis2, giving us much more valuable input on the
whole system in the process.

I do agree that it would be better to add this support when there is a
wsdl24j library available.

As far as WSDL 1.1 support, I believe this is not something we can just
blow off with a "use Axis 1.x" statement.  The fact of the matter is, to
many users, WSDL *is* web services.  If Axis2 doesn't get it at least as
good as the existing Axis, this will be bad.  It will be a PR nightmare
if people download Axis2 1.0 and it can't even generate WSDL from their
Java code, or consume the same services when presented with a WSDL.

This is obviously my personal opinion, and I realize that I an unable to
put code where my mouth is these days.  But believe me when I say I am
very hopeful and excited that Axis2 will be even more successful than
Axis is.  But I know our customers/users pretty well, and they are going
to be confused/unhappy if Axis2 doesn't solve the same problems for them
as Axis1 *plus* add something more.  "Better Architecture" doesn't sell
software, even open source, free software. :-)

Let's frame the discussion like this: Can you describe the user/customer
that will download and use Axis2 (aka "user stories")?

I'll start with me:
I am using Axis 1.2 embedded in my commercial product to support Web
Services.  From the publishing side, I create dynamic Java classes on
the fly and pass them to Axis to get the WSDL for my services.  I use
the Provider/Handler architecture to dispatch incoming requests to
services written in a custom scripting language by my users.

I also support consumption of web services from my scripting language.
A user passes a WSDL URL in, along with the parameters to the operation.
I generate Axis stubs under the covers and invoke the Java stubs to take
care of all the work on the client side, converting the results to
objects in the scripting language.

I hear about a new version of Axis, name Axis2.  I have had some
problems with the document/literal support in Axis1 and the type mapping
system has been giving me trouble.  I also have heard there is a support
for many of the specification (Addressing, WS-Security) that my users
have been asking for baked right in to Axis2, along with better
performance.  Also the Axis1 team doesn't seem like they will be adding
support for WSDL 2.0, so I am hoping that the new version give me that

Question: How do you sell me on Axis2?  Why am I switching to it (which
isn't cheap as the APIs are not compatible)?  What benefits do I get?

Tom Jordahl

-----Original Message-----
From: Srinath Perera [] 
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Axis2] 1.0-alpha release

did anybody use wsdl 2.0 for production? I know people will, but it is
not a concern for the users right now. We relase for the real world ..
to me holding axis2 out due to wsdl2 is unfair

let us implemet the thing when spec is final, and wsdl4j equivalent
comes out. I see know reason we need to dealy Axis2 for wsdl2.

reagrding alpha vs .9x, alpha states that Axis2 1.0 near .. I belive
features shouldnot change across alpha beta they are
differernt from the 9.x


On 9/24/05, Dennis Sosnoski <> wrote:
> Steve Loughran wrote:
> > Tom Jordahl wrote:
> >
> >> I would say that any Axis2 1.0 would have to fully support WSDL 1.1
> >> and WSDL 2.0 generation (from Java) and consumption (to Java).  I
> >> don't think we are there yet, particularly on the WSDL 2.0 front.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I would much rather release early/often with a .92, .93, .95, etc.
> >
> >
> > That might be a better approach. A point number to mean "ready to
> > use", a value <1.0.
> > I note that there is a very large number of floating point values
> > between 0.92 and 1.0
> +1 to .92 - in my interpretation, all the releases to this point have
> been alpha releases. If the progressive version numbering suddenly
> changes to "1.0 alpha" it's just going to confuse potential users. I'd
> prefer to stick with .9X until a solid 1.0 release candidate is
>   - Dennis

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