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From Dennis Sosnoski <>
Subject Re: [axis2] simple data binder
Date Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:36:12 GMT
Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:

>On Thu, 2005-08-11 at 12:12 -0400, Tom Jordahl wrote:
>>From: Glen Daniels []: 
>>>Correct.  Whatever "simple" db framework we include must be able to:
>>>1) Do rpc/lit AND rpc/enc
>>>2) Handle WSDL 1.1 "wrapped" style method calls
>>>3) Handle SOAP 1.1 and SOAP 1.2 data encoding (arrays, mrefs)
>>>4) Handle WSDL 2.0 RPC style (once we're handling WSDL 2.0 :))
>>This is the kind of list I like to see. :-)
>-1 .. :(. All of that stuff is about doing yet-another-RPC-SOAP-thing.
>I don't agree that we need to *build into the core of Axis2* every
>possible thing that Axis1 did. If we go with that all the way, then we
>have no room to create anything new .. all we're doing is reimplementing
>what we had before.
I agree with you that this stuff should not be in the Axis2 core, though 
it's certainly useful to many people. Perhaps the best way of handling 
this is to have the "Axis2 data binding" framework just use the same 
interface as the other data binding frameworks (XMLBeans, JiBX, etc.) 
but be bundled with the distribution as a separate jar. That way users 
who want to use this basic Axis 1.X-style "automatic" binding can do so, 
but it won't add to the size of the Axis2 jars required for people using 
other frameworks.

>IMO Axis2 is about future Web service stuff where its much more than
>about RPC style stuff. That's why to me it is *fundamental* that data
>binding is not in the core and that data binding has nothing to do with
>the message exchange pattern. I've converted over time ..I used to be an
>RPC style bigot too but now I'm totally convinced that the value of Web
>services will show thru much better when we start adopting XML all the
>way through. Data binding is contrary to that view; hence my desire to
>keep it out of the core.
I don't know how it's even possible to adopt XML "all the way through" 
while working with software, at least not unless one of the XML-based 
languages catches on. Ultimately developers need to work with the data 
in XML documents. They can do so using the actual parser output, using a 
DOM, or using some sort of data binding or XML serialization to convert 
to and from Java objects.

>While I agree with David Sosnoski that many people do and will continue
>to start with a piece of code and "Webservicify" it, I disagree that
>that's what Axis2 should be focused on.
I don't think we're in disagreement on this. :-)  I'm hoping that Axis2 
will be flexible enough to support all the variations of XML handling 
that developers may want to use. I think that StAX and (optional, only 
constructed if needed) OM are a good base to build on, and with an 
interface that allows developers to plug in data binding support as 
desired the framework should suit everyone's needs.

  - Dennis

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