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From Davanum Srinivas <>
Subject Re: [axis2] simple data binder
Date Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:42:34 GMT

Just like we have efforts for JAX-WS and SAAJ, this is another effort
from the community. Why the -1? If you don't want it in the core then
you can push for it. We can't -1 discussions....

-- dims

On 8/11/05, Sanjiva Weerawarana <> wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-08-11 at 12:12 -0400, Tom Jordahl wrote:
> > From: Glen Daniels []:
> > > Correct.  Whatever "simple" db framework we include must be able to:
> > >
> > > 1) Do rpc/lit AND rpc/enc
> > >
> > > 2) Handle WSDL 1.1 "wrapped" style method calls
> > >
> > > 3) Handle SOAP 1.1 and SOAP 1.2 data encoding (arrays, mrefs)
> > >
> > > 4) Handle WSDL 2.0 RPC style (once we're handling WSDL 2.0 :))
> >
> > +1
> >
> > This is the kind of list I like to see. :-)
> -1 .. :(. All of that stuff is about doing yet-another-RPC-SOAP-thing.
> I don't agree that we need to *build into the core of Axis2* every
> possible thing that Axis1 did. If we go with that all the way, then we
> have no room to create anything new .. all we're doing is reimplementing
> what we had before.
> I know there are many people in the world who *still* want to use Web
> services to SOAP enable RPC stuff. If that's what you want to do then
> Axis1 does one hell of a job of doing that; please keep using it .. the
> code works fine and many smart people have put in a lot of effort on it.
> IMO Axis2 is about future Web service stuff where its much more than
> about RPC style stuff. That's why to me it is *fundamental* that data
> binding is not in the core and that data binding has nothing to do with
> the message exchange pattern. I've converted over time ..I used to be an
> RPC style bigot too but now I'm totally convinced that the value of Web
> services will show thru much better when we start adopting XML all the
> way through. Data binding is contrary to that view; hence my desire to
> keep it out of the core.
> While I agree with David Sosnoski that many people do and will continue
> to start with a piece of code and "Webservicify" it, I disagree that
> that's what Axis2 should be focused on. We put a lot of effort to create
> the MEP & context framework which allows one to deal with any kind of
> MEP. And the reality is that starting with Java code is a flat out lousy
> way to implement anything except in-out type MEPs - that's all the Java
> programming model gives you in its guts: a method call. If you want to
> do other stuff (including a simple in-only or out-only) then Java code
> is not a great way to start .. you need to start at a "higher" level and
> then write the code .. or take Java code and annotate it to death.
> It really comes down to why we are doing Axis2. For some its to try to
> gain performance improvement out of going to a StAX model etc.. While I
> agree that is a VERY important requirement, I would put the priority of
> that requirement below the priority of making it an idea framework for
> doing all kinds of asynchronous message exchange patterns. So I'm not
> saying Axis2 cannot be used to write a super-duper-best-of-breed
> yet-another-RPC-SOAP-thing; what I want to see is that "old" RPC stuff
> kept out of the core to the maximum possible extent. Yes so I can live
> with leaving hooks to make that work, of course.
> I know this will cause a major battle .. but I think we need to discuss
> what this effort is about long term too .. if for nothing else other
> than to get everyone on the same page (its certainly possible you'll
> convince me I skipped a chapter somewhere).
> Sanjiva.

Davanum Srinivas : - Oxygenating The Web Service Platform

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