axis-java-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Aleksander Slominski <as...@cs.indiana.edu>
Subject Re: [Axis2] Re: Full infoset support
Date Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:46:15 GMT
this is another reason why people that wants true doc/lit exchange will 
want MTOM or look for alternative and simple XML/HTTP

the only safe way to transport XML document inside another XML document 
is escaping  it as string or even better BASE64 (in SOAP 1.1 there were 
discussions about "id" attribute ...)

alek

Davanum Srinivas wrote:

>ok understood.
>
>
>On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 22:08:03 +0600, Sanjiva Weerawarana
><sanjiva@opensource.lk> wrote:
>  
>
>>A PI ..
>>
>>    <Body><? blah .. ?> </Body>
>>
>>is not legal SOAP even tho its valid XML.
>>
>>
>>
>>Sanjiva.
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Davanum Srinivas" <davanum@gmail.com>
>>To: <axis-dev@ws.apache.org>
>>Cc: "Ajith Ranabahu" <ajith.ranabahu@gmail.com>
>>Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 7:40 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Axis2] Re: Full infoset support
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Hmmm. my bad then...Can you please give me an example of what SOAP
>>>does not allow inside <Body>...</Body>? (but something which is part
>>>of the "full XML Infoset"?)
>>>
>>>thanks,
>>>dims
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:27:34 +0600, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>>><sanjiva@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>>That's not true Dims .. SOAP doesn't *allow* you to transmit the
>>>>full XML Infoset. So if you're doing SAAJ then you will *not*
>>>>have the full Infoset present, even though the DOM behind SAAJ
>>>>is capable of representing the full Infoset.
>>>>
>>>>The OM as it stands *is* capable of representing *any* XML that
>>>>can appear inside <Body>...</Body>.
>>>>
>>>>Sanjiva.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Davanum Srinivas" <davanum@gmail.com>
>>>>To: <axis-dev@ws.apache.org>; "Ajith Ranabahu"
>>>>        
>>>>
>><ajith.ranabahu@gmail.com>
>>    
>>
>>>>Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 6:49 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Axis2] Re: Full infoset support
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Ajith,
>>>>>
>>>>>Please remember, if the user wants to do doc/lit by hand....It implies
>>>>>he wants to do EVERYTHING possible with XML inside the SOAP Envelope.
>>>>>So If you can't do complete XML Infoset there....then OM is useless
>>>>>for him. Also remember you can't do SAAJ if OM does not support
>>>>>complete XML Infoset.
>>>>>
>>>>>-- dims
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 16:20:20 +0600, Ajith Ranabahu
>>>>><ajith.ranabahu@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi there Alek,
>>>>>>Sorry about the first mail which actually lacked the "Axis2" part.
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>It
>>    
>>
>>>>>>was sent in by mistake.
>>>>>>BTW i think the rationale behind making OM specific should be
>>>>>>mentioned in a bit more detail here. This is how I see it so if
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>other
>>    
>>
>>>>>>guys feel I am wrong please correct me.
>>>>>>Ok here goes
>>>>>>1. XML infoset is truly fundamental. No doubt about it. However that
>>>>>>fundamentality only plays a role if the tool we are making is pure
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>XML
>>    
>>
>>>>>>based. In this case our tool (Axis 2 to be specific) is focused into
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>a
>>    
>>
>>>>>>specific subset of XML which is SOAP. So my point is that what we
>>>>>>should be making is a SOAP object model (that is what OM is right
>>>>>>now). You can just call it a bear-bones SOAP object model.
>>>>>>2.We want this OM to be light weight. That is why we refrained from
>>>>>>the easy choice, making OM on top of something like XOM or JDOM. We
>>>>>>can incorporate the differed building capability to such object
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>models
>>    
>>
>>>>>>without much hassel. However that wont solve our memory footprint
>>>>>>problem. Hence OM was written purely from scratch to include the
>>>>>>eseential information items and minimize the content in the memory.
>>>>>>3. Well we DO gain a lot, in terms of memory,simplicity and speed
by
>>>>>>catering for SOAP only. The concern of many people is not another
>>>>>>complete XML infoset representation (they already have plenty of
>>>>>>choices like DOM,JDOM,XOM or even XML beans which has complete
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>schema
>>    
>>
>>>>>>support). However there are very few SOAP stacks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hope this helps to get our rationale through :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 03:08:57 -0500, Aleksander Slominski
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>><aslom@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Eran Chinthaka wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>for me it is: AXIOM API must support XML Infoset and
allow an
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>API
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>>>implementation that implements all XML infoset if
it finds it
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>necessary
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>but default OM implementation is optimized for SOAP.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>i think Web Services are more than just SOAP and precluding
use
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>of
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>>>XML/HTTP would be an error (especially that it is
so easy to
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>support).
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>the only parts of XML Infoset that we may not want
to support
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>are
>>    
>>
>>>>those
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>not required by SOAP (mostly related to PIs and DTDs
as they
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>are
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>>>prohibited in SOAP 1.2 message for details see
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.w3.org/TR/soap12-part1/#soapenv - anything
more
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>excluded? and
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>comments are allowed just not inside message but in
document
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>...)
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>>>so think it can be simply done by having DTD related
properties
>>>>>>>>>>empty/default/null (such as those in
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-infoset/#infoitem.document)
and AXIOM
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>impl
>>    
>>
>>>>to
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>throw exception if it sees DTD (configurable to do
so as
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>required
>>    
>>
>>>>for
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>SOAP 1.2 ...)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>[Chinthaka] can u all remember the basic concepts we agreed
on
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>the
>>    
>>
>>>>summit.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>One is YAGNI and one other is KISS. So if we just create some
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>support
>>    
>>
>>>>for
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>DTD and PI and just throw an exception, isn't it YAGNI or
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>violating
>>    
>>
>>>>KISS
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>???????
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>i regard  XML infoset API as _fundamental_ (so it is YAGNI) and
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>not
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>something that can be simplified, omitted, or further KISSed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>this is different from actual OM impls that may chose to not
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>support
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>something in XML Infoset and throw exception (like in case of
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>SOAP)
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>therefore i do not think we differ much - i think XML Infoset
API
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>such
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>as AXIOM should be reflecting XML Infoset element information
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>items
>>    
>>
>>>>and
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>properties but implementations can be optimized for subset of
XML
>>>>>>>Infoset (such as SOAP 1.2 or 1.1).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>however i do not see any considerable gains by fusing SOAP and
XML
>>>>>>>Infoset APIs together but it will make things bigger and more
>>>>>>>complicated ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>alek
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>Ajith Ranabahu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>--
>>>Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/
>>>      
>>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>


-- 
The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay


Mime
View raw message