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From Davanum Srinivas <dava...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Axis2] Re: Full infoset support
Date Fri, 03 Dec 2004 16:09:52 GMT
ok understood.


On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 22:08:03 +0600, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sanjiva@opensource.lk> wrote:
> A PI ..
> 
>     <Body><? blah .. ?> </Body>
> 
> is not legal SOAP even tho its valid XML.
> 
> 
> 
> Sanjiva.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Davanum Srinivas" <davanum@gmail.com>
> To: <axis-dev@ws.apache.org>
> Cc: "Ajith Ranabahu" <ajith.ranabahu@gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 7:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Axis2] Re: Full infoset support
> 
> > Hmmm. my bad then...Can you please give me an example of what SOAP
> > does not allow inside <Body>...</Body>? (but something which is part
> > of the "full XML Infoset"?)
> >
> > thanks,
> > dims
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:27:34 +0600, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> > <sanjiva@opensource.lk> wrote:
> > > That's not true Dims .. SOAP doesn't *allow* you to transmit the
> > > full XML Infoset. So if you're doing SAAJ then you will *not*
> > > have the full Infoset present, even though the DOM behind SAAJ
> > > is capable of representing the full Infoset.
> > >
> > > The OM as it stands *is* capable of representing *any* XML that
> > > can appear inside <Body>...</Body>.
> > >
> > > Sanjiva.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Davanum Srinivas" <davanum@gmail.com>
> > > To: <axis-dev@ws.apache.org>; "Ajith Ranabahu"
> <ajith.ranabahu@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 6:49 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Axis2] Re: Full infoset support
> > >
> > > > Ajith,
> > > >
> > > > Please remember, if the user wants to do doc/lit by hand....It implies
> > > > he wants to do EVERYTHING possible with XML inside the SOAP Envelope.
> > > > So If you can't do complete XML Infoset there....then OM is useless
> > > > for him. Also remember you can't do SAAJ if OM does not support
> > > > complete XML Infoset.
> > > >
> > > > -- dims
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 16:20:20 +0600, Ajith Ranabahu
> > > > <ajith.ranabahu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Hi there Alek,
> > > > > Sorry about the first mail which actually lacked the "Axis2" part.
> It
> > > > > was sent in by mistake.
> > > > > BTW i think the rationale behind making OM specific should be
> > > > > mentioned in a bit more detail here. This is how I see it so if
> other
> > > > > guys feel I am wrong please correct me.
> > > > > Ok here goes
> > > > > 1. XML infoset is truly fundamental. No doubt about it. However that
> > > > > fundamentality only plays a role if the tool we are making is pure
> XML
> > > > > based. In this case our tool (Axis 2 to be specific) is focused into
> a
> > > > > specific subset of XML which is SOAP. So my point is that what we
> > > > > should be making is a SOAP object model (that is what OM is right
> > > > > now). You can just call it a bear-bones SOAP object model.
> > > > > 2.We want this OM to be light weight. That is why we refrained from
> > > > > the easy choice, making OM on top of something like XOM or JDOM.
We
> > > > > can incorporate the differed building capability to such object
> models
> > > > > without much hassel. However that wont solve our memory footprint
> > > > > problem. Hence OM was written purely from scratch to include the
> > > > > eseential information items and minimize the content in the memory.
> > > > > 3. Well we DO gain a lot, in terms of memory,simplicity and speed
by
> > > > > catering for SOAP only. The concern of many people is not another
> > > > > complete XML infoset representation (they already have plenty of
> > > > > choices like DOM,JDOM,XOM or even XML beans which has complete
> schema
> > > > > support). However there are very few SOAP stacks!
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope this helps to get our rationale through :)
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 03:08:57 -0500, Aleksander Slominski
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > <aslom@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
> > > > > > Eran Chinthaka wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >>>for me it is: AXIOM API must support XML Infoset
and allow an
> API
> > > > > > >>>implementation that implements all XML infoset if
it finds it
> > > necessary
> > > > > > >>>but default OM implementation is optimized for SOAP.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>i think Web Services are more than just SOAP and
precluding use
> of
> > > > > > >>>XML/HTTP would be an error (especially that it is
so easy to
> > > support).
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>the only parts of XML Infoset that we may not want
to support
> are
> > > those
> > > > > > >>>not required by SOAP (mostly related to PIs and
DTDs as they
> are
> > > > > > >>>prohibited in SOAP 1.2 message for details see
> > > > > > >>>http://www.w3.org/TR/soap12-part1/#soapenv - anything
more
> > > excluded? and
> > > > > > >>>comments are allowed just not inside message but
in document
> ...)
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>so think it can be simply done by having DTD related
properties
> > > > > > >>>empty/default/null (such as those in
> > > > > > >>>http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-infoset/#infoitem.document)
and AXIOM
> impl
> > > to
> > > > > > >>>throw exception if it sees DTD (configurable to
do so as
> required
> > > for
> > > > > > >>>SOAP 1.2 ...)
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >[Chinthaka] can u all remember the basic concepts we agreed
on
> the
> > > summit.
> > > > > > >One is YAGNI and one other is KISS. So if we just create
some
> support
> > > for
> > > > > > >DTD and PI and just throw an exception, isn't it YAGNI or
> violating
> > > KISS
> > > > > > >???????
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > i regard  XML infoset API as _fundamental_ (so it is YAGNI)
and
> not
> > > > > > something that can be simplified, omitted, or further KISSed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > this is different from actual OM impls that may chose to not
> support
> > > > > > something in XML Infoset and throw exception (like in case of
> SOAP)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > therefore i do not think we differ much - i think XML Infoset
API
> such
> > > > > > as AXIOM should be reflecting XML Infoset element information
> items
> > > and
> > > > > > properties but implementations can be optimized for subset of
XML
> > > > > > Infoset (such as SOAP 1.2 or 1.1).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > however i do not see any considerable gains by fusing SOAP and
XML
> > > > > > Infoset APIs together but it will make things bigger and more
> > > > > > complicated ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > alek
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Ajith Ranabahu
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/
> 
> 


-- 
Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/

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