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From Davanum Srinivas <dava...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Axis2] Re: Full infoset support
Date Fri, 03 Dec 2004 12:49:02 GMT
Ajith,

Please remember, if the user wants to do doc/lit by hand....It implies
he wants to do EVERYTHING possible with XML inside the SOAP Envelope.
So If you can't do complete XML Infoset there....then OM is useless
for him. Also remember you can't do SAAJ if OM does not support
complete XML Infoset.

-- dims


On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 16:20:20 +0600, Ajith Ranabahu
<ajith.ranabahu@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi there Alek,
> Sorry about the first mail which actually lacked the "Axis2" part. It
> was sent in by mistake.
> BTW i think the rationale behind making OM specific should be
> mentioned in a bit more detail here. This is how I see it so if other
> guys feel I am wrong please correct me.
> Ok here goes
> 1. XML infoset is truly fundamental. No doubt about it. However that
> fundamentality only plays a role if the tool we are making is pure XML
> based. In this case our tool (Axis 2 to be specific) is focused into a
> specific subset of XML which is SOAP. So my point is that what we
> should be making is a SOAP object model (that is what OM is right
> now). You can just call it a bear-bones SOAP object model.
> 2.We want this OM to be light weight. That is why we refrained from
> the easy choice, making OM on top of something like XOM or JDOM. We
> can incorporate the differed building capability to such object models
> without much hassel. However that wont solve our memory footprint
> problem. Hence OM was written purely from scratch to include the
> eseential information items and minimize the content in the memory.
> 3. Well we DO gain a lot, in terms of memory,simplicity and speed by
> catering for SOAP only. The concern of many people is not another
> complete XML infoset representation (they already have plenty of
> choices like DOM,JDOM,XOM or even XML beans which has complete schema
> support). However there are very few SOAP stacks!
> 
> Hope this helps to get our rationale through :)
> 
> On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 03:08:57 -0500, Aleksander Slominski
> 
> 
> <aslom@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
> > Eran Chinthaka wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >>>for me it is: AXIOM API must support XML Infoset and allow an API
> > >>>implementation that implements all XML infoset if it finds it necessary
> > >>>but default OM implementation is optimized for SOAP.
> > >>>
> > >>>i think Web Services are more than just SOAP and precluding use of
> > >>>XML/HTTP would be an error (especially that it is so easy to support).
> > >>>
> > >>>the only parts of XML Infoset that we may not want to support are those
> > >>>not required by SOAP (mostly related to PIs and DTDs as they are
> > >>>prohibited in SOAP 1.2 message for details see
> > >>>http://www.w3.org/TR/soap12-part1/#soapenv - anything more excluded?
and
> > >>>comments are allowed just not inside message but in document ...)
> > >>>
> > >>>so think it can be simply done by having DTD related properties
> > >>>empty/default/null (such as those in
> > >>>http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-infoset/#infoitem.document) and AXIOM impl
to
> > >>>throw exception if it sees DTD (configurable to do so as required for
> > >>>SOAP 1.2 ...)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >[Chinthaka] can u all remember the basic concepts we agreed on the summit.
> > >One is YAGNI and one other is KISS. So if we just create some support for
> > >DTD and PI and just throw an exception, isn't it YAGNI or violating KISS
> > >???????
> > >
> > >
> > i regard  XML infoset API as _fundamental_ (so it is YAGNI) and not
> > something that can be simplified, omitted, or further KISSed.
> >
> > this is different from actual OM impls that may chose to not support
> > something in XML Infoset and throw exception (like in case of SOAP)
> >
> > therefore i do not think we differ much - i think XML Infoset API such
> > as AXIOM should be reflecting XML Infoset element information items and
> > properties but implementations can be optimized for subset of XML
> > Infoset (such as SOAP 1.2 or 1.1).
> >
> > however i do not see any considerable gains by fusing SOAP and XML
> > Infoset APIs together but it will make things bigger and more
> > complicated ...
> >
> >
> >
> > alek
> >
> > --
> > The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Ajith Ranabahu
> 


-- 
Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/

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