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From "Sanjiva Weerawarana" <>
Subject Re: time for a Web services PMC? (was: Fw: spinning out projects (was: incubator project))
Date Fri, 25 Oct 2002 02:51:46 GMT
"Sam Ruby" <> writes:
> My current strategy is to selectively reinforce those messages that I 
> agree with.  Ken made a statement today along those lines, and I echoed 
> it.  I do not believe that Ken is a strong advocate of subprojects. 
> Jim, Roy, Brian, and Greg seem actively opposed.  Just my reading of the 
> tea leaves.

Given the level of fluctuation on that list it seems to me we
need to wait for a bit of stability before moving forward. My
reading of the list is that there is no universal agreement with
your view that each project should just be an independent thing.

At least all the folks who have replied on soap-dev or axis-dev
have +1'ed the idea of having a common umbrella for all Apache
Web services projects. I personally think we'd be missing out
on a great branding opportunity if we don't do that.

> A questions to ponder:

Only one question? (You had "s" at the end ..)

> The PMC should consist of the set of core and active committers for a 
> project.  Do we have such a set that spans these various codebases?  Or 
> do we have essentially non-overlapping sets of committers?

Is that a new rule? I don't see Xerces committers being Axis 
committers or Xalan committers being Xerces committers or vice-versa. 
If that's not what has been the case so far why the new rule?
I always thought that PMC was a set of elected reps from the
various projects and they got elected by virtue of their individual
credibility. Clearly folks (including you it seems considering today's
discussion on the reorg list!) have different understanding of what
the PMC is about and how its constituted.

I'm also a bit surprised by your statement - you were one of the
strongest supporters of WSIF and WSIL being smashed in "under"
Axis in some form; and that was done by naming the CVSs xml-axis-foo
and by having the projects be somehow listed off the Axis page. 
I recall your arguing with Stefano that Axis and Apache SOAP
had precisely the same dev community when there was criticism of
the two SOAP projects at Apache. Why do you now advocate that
we all divorce and go our own ways? I would think that would 
detract majorly from the value of the Apache brand and would 
result in less coordination than desired.

I am personally inclined with organizing ourselves in the way
the axis-dev and soap-dev developers would like to, of course
subject to the legal constructions viable in ASF. So far there's
clearly a preference for a single umbrella for all Web Services
projects in Apache.


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