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From cost...@covalent.net
Subject Re: Axis Re-architecture
Date Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:26:28 GMT
On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Glyn Normington wrote:

> Costin: I'm aiming more at a radical re-architecting rather than a
> re-factoring. My goal is not primarily to preserve the current function as
> some of this is there by accident of the current structure.

I was afraid of that...

If I remember corectly, axis is a 're-architecting' of xml-soap. What
makes you think the next one will be the right one ? And when does it
stop, I assume someone else will start re-architecting your version
when it's almost ready ( by that time is very likely it'll be 
close to a real product, i.e. with all the compromises and complexities).
Do you plan to work on this all alone ? Because if not, others will
come with ideas and requirements and whatever you plan will 
change.

You obviously have all the rights to start any project - and I think 
we ( as users ) have all rights to tell you this is not good for us. 

I totally agree axis has become too complex, it's hard for new people
to contribute, etc. There are some amazing ideas in it, and a lot
of the normal complexity that you find in any project that matures
and has more than one contributor.

But IMHO the only way to fix this is the hard way - starting with
the existing system and cutting the crap, create a set of simpler
interfaces and remove interdependencies, etc. 

At least that's my experience with several 're-architecture' attemtps,
including Axis itself. It all looks wonderfull on paper and the first
draft, and it repeats most of the errors and gets all the complexity
of the original ( because of natural evolution ). 

The only way to get to a simple and modular system is to start with
a real system and refactor it continuously, based on the features and
code that gets added.  

> All: I agree that 1.0 should be shipped before any re-architecture finds
> its way into the mainstream. However, I believe there is no better time
> than now for me, and possibly others who are not contributing to 1.0, to
> start actively working on re-architecture so there is something tangible to
> discuss immediately after 1.0.

Don't forget that no 're-architecture' is perfect, and you'll need to
get it accepted by the mainstream people. And that won't probably happen 
if they are not involved in the design process.

Costin


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