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From "R J Scheuerle Jr" <sc...@us.ibm.com>
Subject RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
Date Mon, 27 May 2002 15:52:03 GMT
Read the replies again.  We only have a half-dozen active committers.  This
does affect the kinds of messages on axis-dev, and it does affect our
responsiveness.  We are certainly not excluding anyone from being a
committer.  We would like to have more committers.

There is some friction on the forums and chats from time to time, but there
is also much cooperation.  Everyone is working hard to make Axis a better
product.

(I am glad there is some friction.  I want a forum where developers can
have disagreements.  I don't want to work with a bunch of "shrinking
violets".)

Rich Scheuerle
XML & Web Services Development
512-838-5115  (IBM TL 678-5115)


                                                                                         
                                           
                      "Fernandez Martinez,                                               
                                           
                      Alejandro"                        To:       axis-dev@xml.apache.org
                                           
                      <a.fernandez.martinez@iber        cc:                           
                                              
                      matica.com>                       Subject:  RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer
access and responsibilities...            
                                                                                         
                                           
                      05/27/2002 09:04 AM                                                
                                           
                      Please respond to axis-dev                                         
                                           
                                                                                         
                                           
                                                                                         
                                           



Sorry for the comment, it was not intended as a general criticism. Please
note that I'm not an Apache committer, and so my opinions are those of an
outsider.


I will requote myself to explain it better:


> The true strength of the Apache community is, IMHO, not in
> its democratic
> values, but in the spirit of cooperation. Only when this
> fails, does the
> result suck (Apache Axis comes to mind).


'The result' stands there for 'the resulting development process' (not the
product). In Jakarta land, things get discussed quite often; few messages
go through without comment, and people are encouraged to contribute. On the
contrary, in the Axis development list, the vast majority of messages are
about technical issues. I have submitted a couple of patches (not well
documented, not well patched, but useful to many people IMHO) to make Axis
easier to use, but I didn't even get a reply; and I've seen some other
people in the same situation.


After raising the issue, I got the following answers:


http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-dev&m=101861850526262&w=2
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-dev&m=101862288730974&w=2


This made me think that there's not enough cooperation on Axis, and the
development process is too closed. Either you're in, or you will never make
it. If you cannot scratch your itch, then the result will be lack of
interest from third parties. This is something that I've never seen on
Jakarta. In fact, the original thread in


http://www.mail-archive.com/general@jakarta.apache.org/msg05431.html
was about being too open to admit new committers.


I did not want to cross-post; if you feel I should send this to
general@jakarta, I will gladly do so in a separate message.


Un saludo,


Alex.


> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Glyn Normington [mailto:glyn_normington@uk.ibm.com]
> Enviado el: lunes 27 de mayo de 2002 15:06
> Para: a.fernandez.martinez@ibermatica.com
> CC: axis-dev@xml.apache.org
> Asunto: RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
>
>
> Alex,
>
> I would be grateful if you could spell out why you think Apache Axis
> 'sucks'? As an Axis committer I am aware of some major
> deficiencies, but
> perhaps you had other things in mind. Please copy axis-dev on
> your reply as
> I'm sure the other developers would welcome specific criticisms.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Glyn
> ----- Forwarded by Glyn Normington/UK/IBM on 27/05/02 13:58 -----
>
>
>
>                       Sam
>
>
>                       Ruby/Raleigh/IBM@        To:
> axis-dev@xml.apache.org
>
>                       IBMUS                    cc:
>
>
>                                                Subject:  RE:
> [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
>
>                       27/05/02 11:21
>
>
>                       Please respond to
>
>
>                       axis-dev
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Seen on general@jakarta.apache.org.  Note the last paragraph.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> ---------------------- Forwarded by Sam Ruby/Raleigh/IBM on 05/27/2002
> 06:20 AM ---------------------------
>
> "Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro"
> <a.fernandez.martinez@ibermatica.com> on
> 05/27/2002 06:10:09 AM
>
> Please respond to "Jakarta General List" <general@jakarta.apache.org>
>
> To:    "'Jakarta General List'" <general@jakarta.apache.org>
> cc:
> Subject:    RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
>
>
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
> > -----Mensaje original-----
> > De: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
> > Enviado el: sábado 25 de mayo de 2002 18:39
> > Para: Jakarta General List
> > Asunto: Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
> >
> > From my understanding, in most European parliamentary democracies,
> > generally you vote for more issue-oriented parties.  Even if
> > you "loose"
> > you take a certain number of seats.  So it makes sense to vote
> > regardless of whether its going to be a landslide.
>
> In most European countries, voting is as irrelevant as it's
> in the States:
> http://www.billionairesforbushorgore.com/
> In Spain we've seen socialists undercutting social benefits
> and privatizing
> public companies; and right-wing parties supporting abortion
> and promoting
> public function. (Not a bad thing, necessarily, just a sign
> of the times).
> I'm sure you can think of similar examples in your own countries.
>
> The true strength of the Apache community is, IMHO, not in
> its democratic
> values, but in the spirit of cooperation. Only when this
> fails, does the
> result suck (Apache Axis comes to mind).
>
> Un saludo,
>
> Alex.
>
>
>
>
>
>



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