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From Alan Gordie <Alan_Gor...@payformance.com>
Subject RE: Possibility of creating stand-alone and embeddable versions o f Ax is was RE: cvs commit: xml-axis/java/samples/attachments EchoAttach m ent. java
Date Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:50:44 GMT
David,

Yes, JBoss includes Axis as part of their JBoss.NET component...and that is
wonderful!  

However, the way I see it, Axis should, as a distribution option, include a
stand-alone/embeddable servlet container that it can rely on to provide an
"out-of-the-box", "one-click startup" solution to allow for a wider variety
of implementation options.  This, of course, leads to a more favorable
adoption profile for folks who are quickly "evaluating" packages because
they will be able to get the samples up and running very quickly.  This is
in addition to the benefits that are mentioned earlier in this thread.

Thanks for the feedback.
Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: David Jencks [mailto:davidjencks@directvinternet.com]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 10:00 AM
To: axis-dev@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: Possibility of creating stand-alone and embeddable versions
o f Ax is was RE: cvs commit: xml-axis/java/samples/attachments
EchoAttach m ent. java


I just started here and don't know much of anything about this stuff...
however if you want to integrate axis and jetty, you may find it useful to
look at jboss.net (at JBoss) which includes such an integration as part of
using axis in jboss.

david jencks


On 2002.04.26 09:38:11 -0400 Alan Gordie wrote:
> 
> (This is a long email, but I felt it was important enough to warrant more
> detail than before, so please look this over and let's keep the thread
> going
> until we arrive at a some decision point.  Thanks)
> 
> I'm also leaning away from NotSoSimpleAxisServer since that would require
> considerable effort to implement and debug fully.  
> 
> Currently, the SimpleAxisServer is used for unit testing the rest of Axis
> so
> it is a critical component, IMHO.  However, since it is not a servlet
> container at present, one could argue that the tests that are currently
> in
> place, which use SAS, are not really doing a good job of simulating how
> Axis
> is going to behave once placed in a full servlet container.  Again, an
> argument for either making it a full container, or adding one to the
> project.
> 
> If we were to add Jetty (or some other lightweight, embeddable container)
> to
> the Axis project, then we could modify the unit tests to run with either
> SAS
> or Jetty...or both.  
> 
> The way I see it, there are several different ways that we could
> integrate /
> distribute Jetty with Axis.
> 
> A)  We would create an additional axis-jetty.jar distro (similar to the
> way
> the JBoss guys package JBoss with Tomcat (jboss-tomcat.jar), with Jetty
> (jboss-jetty.jar) and standalone (jboss.jar) for embedding in your own
> app
> server / container.  This new distro would contain a
> JettyAxisServer.class
> that would instantiate Jetty, map Axis into a WebApplicationContext and
> start listening for requests.  Of course, we would provide a launch
> mechanism via an Ant task or shell scripts to make it easy for a user to
> get
> at this new functionality.
> 
> B)  We could add the Jetty .jar's to the main distro, but provide the
> end-user with launch mechanisms for SAS (we don't want to remove that
> IMO)
> and the new JettyAxisServer as I mentioned in option A).  This would
> bloat
> the primary distro and I don't really see any benefits to doing it this
> way
> other than keeping the sheer number of .jar's to a minimum.
> 
> I feel much more comfortable with A) since we could also add
> axis-tomcat.jar
> at some point.  Tomcat is much more difficult to embed from what I gather
> from others...and I'd prefer to embed Jetty first since I have experience
> with it already.
> 
> Please understand that I can setup the JettyAxisServer.java in a day or
> so,
> depending upon how much time I can squeeze into it.  
> 
> If you guys would like, I can create an axis-jetty.jar from the latest
> CVS
> build, that would include my GUI patches, as well as JettyAxisServer
> along
> with a jetty.xml for launching the whole thing via "ant jetty.xml server
> -Dport=8080" or something similar.  Then you guys could examine how I did
> it, provide feedback, vote on it and let's see where it goes.
> 
> Bottomline, my patches are being committed due to the inability of SAS to
> host the AxisServlet and there are very few easy ways past that.  I would
> much rather spend my time making the AxisServlet GUI with the ability to
> manage services, operations, invoke operations, etc. that puts us on
> level
> playing ground with .NET rather than spending alot of time working on
> implementing a servlet container in SAS.
> 
> Please look this over and let me know what you think.
> 
> Thanks,
> Alan
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Jordahl [mailto:tomj@macromedia.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 5:21 PM
> To: 'axis-dev@xml.apache.org'
> Subject: RE: Possibility of creating stand-alone and embeddable versions
> o f Ax is was RE: cvs commit: xml-axis/java/samples/attachments
> EchoAttachm ent. java
> 
> 
> 
> I am partial to the Jetty idea, sounds pretty neat.
> 
> I am not a big fan of the NotSoSimpleAxisServer, but it might not be so
> bad.
> I have no sense of how much work it is to make a simple servlet
> container.
> Could we steal Jetty code and use it in SimpleAxisServer?
> 
> I would support the Jetty idea only if there was a clear distinction (via
> jar files, docs and such) as to where axis.jar ended and
> axis-with-a-servlet-container.jar started. One of the design goal of Axis
> is
> to try and keep it small.
> 
> --
> Tom Jordahl
> Macromedia
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Gordie [mailto:Alan_Gordie@payformance.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:43 AM
> To: 'axis-dev@xml.apache.org'
> Subject: Possibility of creating stand-alone and embeddable versions of
> Ax is was RE: cvs commit: xml-axis/java/samples/attachments
> EchoAttachment. java
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, this seems like a good time for us to discuss SimpleAxisServer a
> bit.
> I'll also throw my ideas about stand-alone / embeddable Axis in as well.
> 
> It appears to me that the SimpleAxisServer is being used primarily for
> automated testing, as well as quick-and-dirty service deployment for some
> folks (again, I'm sure this is for testing).  Now, in order to add
> support
> for testing the servlet-based GUI that I've been working on via
> SimpleAxisServer without requiring Axis to be deployed to a
> Tomcat/Websphere/etc server, I need to do one of the following:  
> 
> a)  Add query string / parameter parsing and then manually drive my
> classes
> in a non-servlet manner behind the scenes.
> b)  Evolve SimpleAxisServer into a basic-servlet container and then host
> AxisServlet as a servlet.
> c)  Use a free, embeddable servlet container that already fits the bill.
> (Jetty?)
> 
> My comments...
> 
> a)  This would be a one-off type of change that would only serve my
> purposes
> and would not necessarily be reusable in other contexts.  Therefore, I'm
> leaning away from this method.
> 
> b)  This solution could be a Good Thing(tm) if the concensus is that we
> should grow SimpleAxisServer into NotSoSimpleAxisServer.  What do you
> guys
> think?  I'm ok with implementing a very basic container if need be, but
> this
> is not my preference.
> 
> c)  We could use an http server / servlet container that supports
> HTTP/HTTPS, MIME, as well as the Servlet API to provide a one-stop shop
> for
> serious testing and even small production deployments.  Imagine if a user
> could simply download Axis and begin deploying WS's.  
> 
> I know, I know, most folks doing serious work will already have a server
> for
> deploying Axis, but I would argue that a large majority of newcomers
> would
> find this type of "single jar" solution attractive.
> 
> The benefits of c) would be multi-faceted...
>  *  Automated testing could be taken up a notch for things like MIME &
> HTTPS
> support.
>  *  We could create an "Axis Server" distro that folks could use for
> actually deploying WS's.
>  *  We could create an "Embeddable Axis" distro that folks could use for
> trivially adding support for WS's, both client _and_ server-side into
> their
> existing, and future, applications.  
> ----These last two could also help to get press/attention for the Axis
> project in general.  
> 
> Note:  I'm already experienced with embedding Jetty
> (http://jetty.mortbay.com/) into our application server and would be glad
> to
> contribute the integration work to make this happen in Axis.  
> 
> FYI, Here's the high-level feature list for Jetty (from their website):
> *  100% Java Server
> *  Open Source
> *  HTTP Protocol 1.1
> *  Servlet API 2.3
> *  Java Server Pages 1.2
> *  SSL Support
> *  Modular Architecture
> *  Embeddable
> *  Small & Efficient
> *  Flexible Configuration
> *  HTML Generation. 
> *  EJB & JMX Integration
> 
> Also note that I'm not affiliated with Jetty in any way, shape or form.
> It's just a really great tool and seems to be appropriate for this type
> of
> thing, IMHO.
> 
> Thanks for reading this far, please let me know what you think of these
> ideas.  
> 
> Am I way off base here?
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glen Daniels [mailto:gdaniels@macromedia.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 2:50 PM
> To: 'axis-dev@xml.apache.org'
> Subject: RE: cvs commit: xml-axis/java/samples/attachments
> EchoAttachment. java
> 
> 
> >   Add a functional test for attachments but comment it out since
> >   SimpleAxisServer doesn't support it.  If we ever switch to
> >   a real server (like Tomcat) ...
> 
> ...or add MIME support to SimpleAxisServer....
> 
> --G
> 
> 

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