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From David Jencks <davidjen...@directvinternet.com>
Subject Re: Possibility of creating stand-alone and embeddable versions o f Ax is was RE: cvs commit: xml-axis/java/samples/attachments EchoAttach m ent. java
Date Fri, 26 Apr 2002 18:12:37 GMT
I didn't mean to imply that a standalone axis-jetty integration should be
abandoned, but that if there were problems it might be that they had been
solved in the axis-jetty-jboss integration, and that this existing
integration could conceivably be a useful reference for those pursuing a
standalone integration.

My apologies for not making this more clear in my original post.

david jencks

On 2002.04.26 13:50:44 -0400 Alan Gordie wrote:
> David,
> 
> Yes, JBoss includes Axis as part of their JBoss.NET component...and that
> is
> wonderful!  
> 
> However, the way I see it, Axis should, as a distribution option, include
> a
> stand-alone/embeddable servlet container that it can rely on to provide
> an
> "out-of-the-box", "one-click startup" solution to allow for a wider
> variety
> of implementation options.  This, of course, leads to a more favorable
> adoption profile for folks who are quickly "evaluating" packages because
> they will be able to get the samples up and running very quickly.  This
> is
> in addition to the benefits that are mentioned earlier in this thread.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.
> Alan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Jencks [mailto:davidjencks@directvinternet.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 10:00 AM
> To: axis-dev@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Possibility of creating stand-alone and embeddable versions
> o f Ax is was RE: cvs commit: xml-axis/java/samples/attachments
> EchoAttach m ent. java
> 
> 
> I just started here and don't know much of anything about this stuff...
> however if you want to integrate axis and jetty, you may find it useful
> to
> look at jboss.net (at JBoss) which includes such an integration as part
> of
> using axis in jboss.
> 
> david jencks
> 
> 
> On 2002.04.26 09:38:11 -0400 Alan Gordie wrote:
> > 
> > (This is a long email, but I felt it was important enough to warrant
> more
> > detail than before, so please look this over and let's keep the thread
> > going
> > until we arrive at a some decision point.  Thanks)
> > 
> > I'm also leaning away from NotSoSimpleAxisServer since that would
> require
> > considerable effort to implement and debug fully.  
> > 
> > Currently, the SimpleAxisServer is used for unit testing the rest of
> Axis
> > so
> > it is a critical component, IMHO.  However, since it is not a servlet
> > container at present, one could argue that the tests that are currently
> > in
> > place, which use SAS, are not really doing a good job of simulating how
> > Axis
> > is going to behave once placed in a full servlet container.  Again, an
> > argument for either making it a full container, or adding one to the
> > project.
> > 
> > If we were to add Jetty (or some other lightweight, embeddable
> container)
> > to
> > the Axis project, then we could modify the unit tests to run with
> either
> > SAS
> > or Jetty...or both.  
> > 
> > The way I see it, there are several different ways that we could
> > integrate /
> > distribute Jetty with Axis.
> > 
> > A)  We would create an additional axis-jetty.jar distro (similar to the
> > way
> > the JBoss guys package JBoss with Tomcat (jboss-tomcat.jar), with Jetty
> > (jboss-jetty.jar) and standalone (jboss.jar) for embedding in your own
> > app
> > server / container.  This new distro would contain a
> > JettyAxisServer.class
> > that would instantiate Jetty, map Axis into a WebApplicationContext and
> > start listening for requests.  Of course, we would provide a launch
> > mechanism via an Ant task or shell scripts to make it easy for a user
> to
> > get
> > at this new functionality.
> > 
> > B)  We could add the Jetty .jar's to the main distro, but provide the
> > end-user with launch mechanisms for SAS (we don't want to remove that
> > IMO)
> > and the new JettyAxisServer as I mentioned in option A).  This would
> > bloat
> > the primary distro and I don't really see any benefits to doing it this
> > way
> > other than keeping the sheer number of .jar's to a minimum.
> > 
> > I feel much more comfortable with A) since we could also add
> > axis-tomcat.jar
> > at some point.  Tomcat is much more difficult to embed from what I
> gather
> > from others...and I'd prefer to embed Jetty first since I have
> experience
> > with it already.
> > 
> > Please understand that I can setup the JettyAxisServer.java in a day or
> > so,
> > depending upon how much time I can squeeze into it.  
> > 
> > If you guys would like, I can create an axis-jetty.jar from the latest
> > CVS
> > build, that would include my GUI patches, as well as JettyAxisServer
> > along
> > with a jetty.xml for launching the whole thing via "ant jetty.xml
> server
> > -Dport=8080" or something similar.  Then you guys could examine how I
> did
> > it, provide feedback, vote on it and let's see where it goes.
> > 
> > Bottomline, my patches are being committed due to the inability of SAS
> to
> > host the AxisServlet and there are very few easy ways past that.  I
> would
> > much rather spend my time making the AxisServlet GUI with the ability
> to
> > manage services, operations, invoke operations, etc. that puts us on
> > level
> > playing ground with .NET rather than spending alot of time working on
> > implementing a servlet container in SAS.
> > 
> > Please look this over and let me know what you think.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Alan
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tom Jordahl [mailto:tomj@macromedia.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 5:21 PM
> > To: 'axis-dev@xml.apache.org'
> > Subject: RE: Possibility of creating stand-alone and embeddable
> versions
> > o f Ax is was RE: cvs commit: xml-axis/java/samples/attachments
> > EchoAttachm ent. java
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I am partial to the Jetty idea, sounds pretty neat.
> > 
> > I am not a big fan of the NotSoSimpleAxisServer, but it might not be so
> > bad.
> > I have no sense of how much work it is to make a simple servlet
> > container.
> > Could we steal Jetty code and use it in SimpleAxisServer?
> > 
> > I would support the Jetty idea only if there was a clear distinction
> (via
> > jar files, docs and such) as to where axis.jar ended and
> > axis-with-a-servlet-container.jar started. One of the design goal of
> Axis
> > is
> > to try and keep it small.
> > 
> > --
> > Tom Jordahl
> > Macromedia
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alan Gordie [mailto:Alan_Gordie@payformance.com]
> > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:43 AM
> > To: 'axis-dev@xml.apache.org'
> > Subject: Possibility of creating stand-alone and embeddable versions of
> > Ax is was RE: cvs commit: xml-axis/java/samples/attachments
> > EchoAttachment. java
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Ahh, this seems like a good time for us to discuss SimpleAxisServer a
> > bit.
> > I'll also throw my ideas about stand-alone / embeddable Axis in as
> well.
> > 
> > It appears to me that the SimpleAxisServer is being used primarily for
> > automated testing, as well as quick-and-dirty service deployment for
> some
> > folks (again, I'm sure this is for testing).  Now, in order to add
> > support
> > for testing the servlet-based GUI that I've been working on via
> > SimpleAxisServer without requiring Axis to be deployed to a
> > Tomcat/Websphere/etc server, I need to do one of the following:  
> > 
> > a)  Add query string / parameter parsing and then manually drive my
> > classes
> > in a non-servlet manner behind the scenes.
> > b)  Evolve SimpleAxisServer into a basic-servlet container and then
> host
> > AxisServlet as a servlet.
> > c)  Use a free, embeddable servlet container that already fits the
> bill.
> > (Jetty?)
> > 
> > My comments...
> > 
> > a)  This would be a one-off type of change that would only serve my
> > purposes
> > and would not necessarily be reusable in other contexts.  Therefore,
> I'm
> > leaning away from this method.
> > 
> > b)  This solution could be a Good Thing(tm) if the concensus is that we
> > should grow SimpleAxisServer into NotSoSimpleAxisServer.  What do you
> > guys
> > think?  I'm ok with implementing a very basic container if need be, but
> > this
> > is not my preference.
> > 
> > c)  We could use an http server / servlet container that supports
> > HTTP/HTTPS, MIME, as well as the Servlet API to provide a one-stop shop
> > for
> > serious testing and even small production deployments.  Imagine if a
> user
> > could simply download Axis and begin deploying WS's.  
> > 
> > I know, I know, most folks doing serious work will already have a
> server
> > for
> > deploying Axis, but I would argue that a large majority of newcomers
> > would
> > find this type of "single jar" solution attractive.
> > 
> > The benefits of c) would be multi-faceted...
> >  *  Automated testing could be taken up a notch for things like MIME &
> > HTTPS
> > support.
> >  *  We could create an "Axis Server" distro that folks could use for
> > actually deploying WS's.
> >  *  We could create an "Embeddable Axis" distro that folks could use
> for
> > trivially adding support for WS's, both client _and_ server-side into
> > their
> > existing, and future, applications.  
> > ----These last two could also help to get press/attention for the Axis
> > project in general.  
> > 
> > Note:  I'm already experienced with embedding Jetty
> > (http://jetty.mortbay.com/) into our application server and would be
> glad
> > to
> > contribute the integration work to make this happen in Axis.  
> > 
> > FYI, Here's the high-level feature list for Jetty (from their website):
> > *  100% Java Server
> > *  Open Source
> > *  HTTP Protocol 1.1
> > *  Servlet API 2.3
> > *  Java Server Pages 1.2
> > *  SSL Support
> > *  Modular Architecture
> > *  Embeddable
> > *  Small & Efficient
> > *  Flexible Configuration
> > *  HTML Generation. 
> > *  EJB & JMX Integration
> > 
> > Also note that I'm not affiliated with Jetty in any way, shape or form.
> > It's just a really great tool and seems to be appropriate for this type
> > of
> > thing, IMHO.
> > 
> > Thanks for reading this far, please let me know what you think of these
> > ideas.  
> > 
> > Am I way off base here?
> > 
> > Alan
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Glen Daniels [mailto:gdaniels@macromedia.com]
> > Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 2:50 PM
> > To: 'axis-dev@xml.apache.org'
> > Subject: RE: cvs commit: xml-axis/java/samples/attachments
> > EchoAttachment. java
> > 
> > 
> > >   Add a functional test for attachments but comment it out since
> > >   SimpleAxisServer doesn't support it.  If we ever switch to
> > >   a real server (like Tomcat) ...
> > 
> > ...or add MIME support to SimpleAxisServer....
> > 
> > --G
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

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