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From John Hawkins <HAWKI...@uk.ibm.com>
Subject Re: Do we need to keep LibWWW transport updated
Date Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:27:19 GMT




+1 - good idea !

John Hawkins




                                                                           
             "Sanjiva                                                      
             Weerawarana"                                                  
             <sanjiva@opensour                                          To 
             ce.lk>                    "Apache AXIS C Developers List"     
                                       <axis-c-dev@ws.apache.org>          
             22/11/2004 13:20                                           cc 
                                                                           
                                                                   Subject 
             Please respond to         Re: Do we need to keep LibWWW       
              "Apache AXIS C           transport updated                   
             Developers List"                                              
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           




How about creating a "graveyard" directory to keep old modules in?
The alternative is to go look for it in the CVS repo Attic dir but
that's a bit harder. If there's a specific module that we know
we're leaving aside then we can move it to the graveyard so that
someone else who wants it can resurrect it if they so desire. :-)

Rebirth is a common practice here in Sri Lanka ;-).

Sanjiva.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Whitlock" <mark_whitlock@uk.ibm.com>
To: <axis-c-dev@ws.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 5:43 PM
Subject: Fw: Do we need to keep LibWWW transport updated


>
>
>
>
> I agree with Samisa. I would prefer that all code that is not built,
> maintained, tested and actively used as part of the project be deleted
from
> CVS. Old code rapidly deteriorates as the rest of the product evolves.
This
> causes confusion as it becomes unclear what is active/working/tested and
> what is obsolete. Developers can always retrieve back levels from CVS if
> they want to. Code becomes obsolete for good reasons - and if a developer
> needs to resurrect an old module, he/she will probably rewrite it rather
> than fix the obsolete backlevel version.
>
> Recently I changed all mallocs to news in the engine, and I moved
> include/axis/server/IParam.hpp to src/common/ComplexObjectHandler.h. But
> there is code in src/wcg which uses malloc and includes IParam. I think
wcg
> is obsolete so I'm not updating it (I can't build and test it), and so it
> deteriorates even further.
>
> I think it is particularly important that we don't expose obsolete,
> inactive or untested code to users, since they will try to use it and
fail.
> Until this morning (when I deleted it) it seemed possible to use
> Call::setSoapHeader to set a ISoapHeader, but there was no way to create
a
> ISoapHeader so this code was obsolete and confusing to users (a small
> example, I know, but there are others).
>
> Mark
> Mark Whitlock
> IBM
>
> ----- Forwarded by Mark Whitlock/UK/IBM on 22/11/2004 11:13 -----
>
>              Samisa Abeysinghe
>              <samisa_abeysingh
>              e@yahoo.com>
To
>                                        Apache AXIS C Developers List
>              22/11/2004 10:52          <axis-c-dev@ws.apache.org>
>
cc
>
>              Please respond to
Subject
>               "Apache AXIS C           Re: Do we need to keep LibWWW
>              Developers List"          transport updated
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > If there are bugs accumulating on an unsupported module, that means
that
> > somebody finding bugs on it, and means somebody trying to use it. So he
> > can volunteer to fix these bugs.
>
> That also means that someone is using a buggy component and we may have
to
> instruct them (often
> repeatedly) that there is a bug in that so use the other. So it is
*extra*
> burden.
>
> It would be so nice if those who find bugs fix those themselves. But how
> real is that? Often
> problems are rerported, but not solutions.
>
> The danger of keeping the deprecated stuff is that after some time, we
will
> have smelly code. Like
> the one happened to old SSL implementation. Not only it had to be
removed,
> but also there are some
> parts of the code where the scars are still left - e.g. WSDL tool, secure
> param in Call class
> methods etc. So now we have to clean them all - this is a maintanance
> headache.
>
> Yet another example. SimpleAxisServer was outdated with new transport
> abstraction layer. When I
> was fixing it, the old code wasted more than two days of mine - as it was
> so outdated. I finally
> wrote all from scratch.
>
> So my experiance is, more often than not, outdated stuff waste time.
>
> Samisa...
>
>
> --- Damitha Kumarage <damitha@opensource.lk> wrote:
>
> > Hi Samisa,
> > I think you did not get what I suggested earlier.
> > What we are using by default is xercesc parser axis2 transport etc.
that
> > is fine. But what I suggest is that we keep the modules in the cvs as
> > source. But remove them from the build files. For example we dont'
build
> > expat by default. We don't build libwww by default in the make build.
But
> > I don't agree removing them from cvs source as well.
> >
> > And we keep a document in the docs folder called modules.html(for
> example)
> > and there keep a record of supported and unsuppored modules(as sanjaya
> > suggested) In our distributions we don't give expat or libwww(or any
> > unspported module) until somebody actively involve working on a
currently
> > unsupported module.
> >
> > If there are bugs accumulating on an unsupported module, that means
that
> > somebody finding bugs on it, and means somebody trying to use it. So he
> > can volunteer to fix these bugs. Accumulating bugs on an unsupported
> > module and not fixing it immediately is not a problem. Our aim is not
to
> > keep jira clean of bug reports(I guess). Our aim of keeping Jira is as
a
> > good informationa source(I guess)
> >
> > thanks
> > damitha
> >
> >
> > > Considering that Xerces is less buggy and stable, and that Xerces is
> from
> > > Apache and Expat is not,
> > > I preffer Xerces.
> > > Additionally, now that we are going to have a TSPP, we are less
likely
> to
> > > use Expat.
> > >
> > > So I am for the removal of Expat based lib, provided that there are
> couple
> > > of bugs in Expat based
> > > lib that were not being attended by any one for some time. Either
> should
> > > fix them or get rid of
> > > Expat based lib if we do not have people willing to maintain that
lib.
> > >
> > > (we should minimize bugs hanging in Jira without being fixed and if
the
> > > bugs are related to less
> > > used components for which we have better alternatives, always better
to
> > > get rid of them - else
> > > time and effort spent on those are wasted.)
> > >
> > > Samisa...
> > >
> > > --- sanjaya singharage <sanjayas@opensource.lk> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Yes I noticed. If we choose to let that be, what shall be done with
> > >> XMLParserExpat?
> > >>
> > >> sanjaya.
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Samisa Abeysinghe" <samisa_abeysinghe@yahoo.com>
> > >> To: "Apache AXIS C Developers List" <axis-c-dev@ws.apache.org>
> > >> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:42 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: Do we need to keep LibWWW transport updated
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Thoughts on LibWWW transport came too late I guess. I have already
> > >> removed
> > >> it last week :(
> > >> > Samisa...
> > >> >
> > >> > --- sanjaya singharage <sanjayas@opensource.lk> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > After thinking about this for some time, I also think I have
to
> > >> agree
> > >> with
> > >> > > damitha. If someone does decide to maintain an unmaintained
module
> > >> it
> > >> would
> > >> > > require some effort to get things going again. This could casue
> > >> hindrance to
> > >> > > a volunteer willing to take up maintainance of a certain module
> that
> > >> was
> > >> > > removed thereby discouraging them. Now I think the even the
> removal
> > >> from
> > >> > > build systems should be done in such a way so that they can be
> > >> re-added
> > >> > > easily later. e.g. Simply reomve a project from the vc workspace
> and
> > >> let
> > >> the
> > >> > > relevant project files stay where they are. If needed to
reawaken
> > >> the
> > >> > > project simple add it back to the workspace. For make and
ant...?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > So I suggest to keep a file say modules.txt at ws-axis/c.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Here is something to start with. please correct any item as
> > >> necessary
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Module                                    Role
> > >> > > Status
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Apache 1.3.X module          Server Transport plugin
> > >> maintained
> > >> > > Apache 2.X module             Server Transport plugin
> > >> maintained
> > >> > > Axis2Transport                    Core Component
> > >> > > maintained
> > >> > > AxisClient                            Core Component
> > >> > > maintained
> > >> > > AxisServer                           Core Component
> > >> > > maintained
> > >> > > AxisTransport                      Client Transport plugin
> > >> > > removed
> > >> > > AxisTransportLibwww         Client Transport plugin
> > >> > > unmaintained
> > >> > > AxisXMLParserExpat          XML Paser plugin
> > >> unmaintained
> > >> > > AxisXMLParserTspp           XML Paser plugin
> > >> unmaintained
> > >> > > AxisXMLParserXerces        XML Paser plugin
> > >> maintained
> > >> > > SimpleAxisServer                Server Transport
> > >> > > maintained
> > >> > >
> > >> > > sanjaya.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > From: "Damitha Kumarage" <damitha@opensource.lk>
> > >> > > To: "Apache AXIS C Developers List" <axis-c-dev@ws.apache.org>
> > >> > > Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 6:46 PM
> > >> > > Subject: Re: Do we need to keep LibWWW transport updated
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > Hi,
> > >> > > > I think we should only remove all refrences of unmaintained
> > >> modules
> > >> from
> > >> > > > all   kind of build process(make ,ant, vc). But I prefer
keeping
> > >> the
> > >> > > > source at cvs for the time being. That might help for
interested
> > >> parties.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > regards
> > >> > > > damitha
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > +1 for documenting status of modules - where would
we do
this,
> > >> though a
> > >> > > > > cvs
> > >> > > > > readme  or on the website?
> > >> > > > >       Is there any way that we can remove libwww entirely
from
> > >> the
> > >> src
> > >> > > > > tree
> > >> > > > > - does cvs allow you to find "deleted files" as some
> > >> repositories do
> > >> (I
> > >> > > > > don't know enough about how cvs works, sorry).
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > +1 for build frameworks being updated so they now longer
> > >> reference
> > >> > > libwww
> > >> > > > > at all.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > John Hawkins
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >              "sanjaya
> > >> > > > >              singharage"
> > >> > > > >              <sanjayas@opensou
> > >> > > To
> > >> > > > >              rce.lk>                   "Apache AXIS
C
> Developers
> > >> List"
> > >> > > > >
> <axis-c-dev@ws.apache.org>
> > >> > > > >              17/11/2004 04:10
> > >> > > cc
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > Subject
> > >> > > > >              Please respond to         Re: Do we need
to
keep
> > >> LibWWW
> > >> > > > >               "Apache AXIS C           transport updated
> > >> > > > >              Developers List"
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > A question on infrastructure. The current active developers
> will
> > >> know
> > >> > > what
> > >> > > > > are being maintained and what are not. But for new
people or
> for
> > >> the
> > >> > > sake
> > >> > > > > of
> > >> > > > > documenting it should we put it down somewhere as to
the
> current
> > >> status
> > >> > > of
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
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