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From "Leo Simons" <leosim...@apache.org>
Subject RE: Phoenix and the Web
Date Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:44:27 GMT
> Hello folks,
> 
> given my recent (unsuccessful) endeavour of getting Jo! to 
> run under Phoenix, I 
> began to wonder what a connection between Phoenix and the Web 
> could/should look 
> like. I think it is imperative for a server application 
> framework and an 
> applicaton server to be able to serve the Web.

=)

> Here are some options I can think of:
> 
> 1) There is a class called PhoenixServlet, but it is labelled 
> as experimental. 
> It does not seem to do very much either. What is its purpose?

Embed phoenix inside a servlet engine (or j2ee server). Ugh.
Think it is unmaintained and there for compatibility. I think
that (once released) it makes more sense to use Fortress and/or
Merlin for this (it makes no sense to me to deploy a .bar into
a .sar into a .war into an .ear).

> 2) Jo! and Sevak can run servlets, but they have no native 
> way to communicate 
> with other apps (except via AltRMI or similar methods). I 
> don't think it is 
> possible to persuade the developers of Jo! or Catalina to 
> componentize their 
> designs to accommodate Avalon/Phoenix. But everything else is 
> just a hack.

Yup.

> 3) How about an ajpv12 or ajpv13 component? Maybe the code 
> can be nicked from 
> Catalina and repackaged as a component. Then every Phoenix 
> app could just use 
> that component and be fully connected to everyone who 
> supports mod_jk or 
> mod_jserv (mainly the Apache httpd, but also some other webservers).

...I'm not too familiar with ajp. IIRC I didn't like it because it
made too many assumptions and used strings/chars.....but that was
when the world still used JServ....it sounds like the sensible
way too go....

I'd like to see it :)

> 4) MX4J already has a HTTPConnector, but it is fairly limited 
> to JMX. But we 
> just need a way to pass control to an arbitrary app and give 
> back a response, 
> maybe it can be done with MX4J?

I'd also consider that a hack :)

> 5) Development of a HTTP component. It does not need to be a 
> full-blown 
> webserver, we just need to speak HTTP. For access control, 
> URL rewriting, error 
> handling and all those other fancy features we could rely on 
> an external 
> webserver and assume that he makes sure to forward only "safe 
> and appropriate" 
> HTTP requests to us for backend processing. Connections have 
> to be limited to 
> that webserver, though. Most webservers have a way to forward 
> HTTP requests to 
> another webserver.

If you develop an http 1.1 implementation the avalon way I'm sure
the fancy features will be easily plugged in ;)

Avalon-based http 1.1 implementation is high on the would-like-
to-see-but-no-itch-to-develop list for I suspect quite a few
people.

There's quite a few http impls in java available to rip off of course
(one I know of is coyote)

> Any other ideas/comments? I like option 3) best.

....Probably the quickest thing is ripping apart an existing
servlet engine....ie the 'hack'....but I like 3) too

7) probably the coolest is writing an avalon+event-based http
implementation from scratch that beats everything else wrt speed,
architecture, and pluggability.

8) roll-your-own protocol and apache httpd module
(one thing I found out recently: modules are easy =)

9) run java within PHP within apache and have that talk to phoenix
over AltRMI

10) run java within Python (mod_snake) within apache and have that
talk to phoenix over AltRMI

11) rip apart axis and run it inside phoenix, then have it
accept calls from IIS.Net

12) run phoenix inside Jboss and map requests from Jetty to phoenix
through Jboss's JMX kernel (I think it still works that way?)

(...)

I still think I like #3 best as well.

Cheers,

Leo



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