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From Berin Loritsch <blorit...@d-haven.org>
Subject Re: Taking a quick pulse of the situation
Date Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:20:33 GMT
Timothy Bennett wrote:

> J Aaron Farr wrote:
> 
>>
>> So, let me reiterate: this is NOT about technical maturity, it is 
>> about community maturity.  The Merlin team does not have to prove its 
>> technical merit, it must prove it has a strong, diverse community 
>> which respects the principles of ASF meritocracy.
>>
> 
> Alright... my silence is over...
> 
> In reality, this is really about deep issues certain members of the 
> Foundation have with one person in the community, isn't it?
> 
> Does the Foundation have issues with you?  Does it have issues with me? 
>  With Cameron?  With Andreas?  With Niclas?  Well, maybe Niclas is a bit 
> in the doghouse these days... ;)
> 
> The answer to those questions is "No", isn't it.  The reason for the 
> insistance to incubate Metro is because of Stephen's involvement in the 
> project.  A number of member are concerned/worried/fear/resent Stephen's 
> behavior and/or personality.  If he suddenly disappeared off the face of 
> the earth, there would hardly be a thought or hesitation about not 
> spinning Merlin out of Avalon as it's own TLP.  And that's the plain 
> truth, and there's no convincing me otherwise.  If he weren't involved 
> in the project, then Merlin would've been a TLP last March.  But he is 
> and thus the quarantine and *reform* him via incubation.

It's not only that.  Keep in mind if Stephen were to suddenly disappear
from the face of the earth, there would be another serious problem
requiring Metro incubation: all development on the core product would
essentially come to a dead stop.

> 
> And I'm against incubation of a technically mature (with an otherwise 
> reasonably strong/healthy community) project on the basis of the issues 
> that the Foundation has with a single individual.

I understand that the user part of the community is fairly healthy.  But
also consider for a moment how many of the users become involved enough
to be a committer?  Are all user requests for help solved only by
current committers or are they also solved by other users?  Just how
long can this model perpetuate itself?

> 
> The Merlin/Metro community doesn't have intra-community issues.  We like 
> each other! We work well together.  It's user community is supported, 
> embraced even. We have the same vision of where the technology is going. 
> It's roadmap. It's destiny, even.  It is a healthy, vibrant, and 
> passionate community.

I think you are missing the piece of the puzzle that sits below Metro:
Framework.  It's handling by the Merlin/Metro community has continually
raised concerns rather than giving the feeling of building on rock
instead of sand.

Again the issues are not with *Merlin* users but framework users.

> 
> The issues here are between certain members of the Foundation and one 
> member of our community.  Has been for a long time, and certainly needs 
> to be resolved!  But the project and the community around it as a whole 
> does not need to suffer the setbacks of an unmerited incubation in order 
> for conflict resolution to occur between Stephen and the folks that have 
> issues with him.  There are other avenues available to resolve these 
> conflicts than the one found in the incubator.
> 
> -- regards -- timothy

That is a large part of the issues that are currently here, but not the
only issue.  I think its not reasonable to make that summation of the
current situation.


-- 

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to 
build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to 
produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
                 - Rich Cook


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