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From "David Leangen" <dlean...@canada.com>
Subject RE: [VOTE] Stephen McConnell as a committer
Date Sat, 25 Sep 2004 23:24:14 GMT

I know I don't contribute much to the project. I am merely a user that began
using Avalon recently. I hope to become a contributor to the project, but
for now, I'm not. So, it's probably not really my place to make any comments

However, from an "outside" point of view, this whole debate is really
difficult to understand. Since whatever happens will have a large influence
on my project, I have a vested interest in understanding the current

The main reason that I am so impressed with this project--and have committed
myself to it now by refactoring my entire project to use the current version
of Avalon--is mostly thanks to the incredible support given by Steve. Quite
frankly, I have never seen that type of committment to any open source
project. What has impressed me most about Steve is that he is really
concerned with the project's users. The way the website is built, the
importance placed on documentation, the excellent support offered, and
especially the patience he has shown and the help getting me through my
problems (not always related to Avalon itself)... to me, these indicate a
very positive direction. Steve's help has been invaluable to me. I have not
seen this type of support in other projects, including ASF projects.
Usually, and understandably so, the developers don't think about users to
this extent--I suppose since they're not getting paid to do this work and
it's more for their own pleasure. That's fine. However, it appears to me
that Steve is setting an important trend, one that at least for me inspires
even greater confidence in the ASF. Isn't this the type of image that that
ASF _should_ be projecting?

Now, IIUC Leo is the chair of the Avalon PMC (though it's not clear to me
what "PMC" means, or what it does). I have no doubts that Leo's concerns are
valid. My problem is, though, that I don't understand what these concerns
are. I would really appreciate your explaining your position (Leo), keeping
in mind that I do not have the context or the history that you guys all

The current tensions should be looked at as positive. Tension indicates that
growth is not far off. The current debate, IMHO, no matter what the outcome,
will make the project stronger, I'm sure.

Thanks for helping me understand this issue.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leo Sutic [mailto:leo.sutic@gmail.com]
> Sent: 26 September 2004 2:48
> To: Avalon Developers List
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Stephen McConnell as a committer
> Niclas,
> you and Stephen have worked together for a while, that much is
> obvious, and I guess great minds think alike. Stephen tells me
>    "let's try and figure this future stuff out as friends.  I know I
> would prefer that."
> while you drop hints with:
>    "I hope I have given you enough information to peacefully withdraw
> your veto,"
> Excellence in coordination and consistency of message. I mean it. But
> frankly, your messages display just the kind of attitude that makes me
> extremely wary of you two, which in turn doesn't do this discussion
> any good at all. So how about we cut the implied threats of nastiness,
> and deal with this in a civilized manner?
> I've noted your points, and I'll give you an answer to them. Right now
> I don't have the time to produce an answer that accurately captures
> your concerns and mine, and I prefer a proper to a quick,
> shoot-from-the-hip answer.
> /LS
> Irrelevant note, but good for a smile - Gmail gives me two Google PFP
> ads for this thread. Both of them for relationship counseling.
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