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From Stephen McConnell <mcconn...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Avant-Garde Avalon
Date Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:23:56 GMT

Incubation of Merlin is not something I would be interested in 
participating in - too much politics - no value proposition on the table 
- not to mention the fact that we would be backing out on the decisions 
this community has taken.  Our own TLP could be something to consider 
(although I remain opposed to that at this time).  If you were to get 
the ducks lined up and present a viable proposal that outlines a clean 
sustainable value proposition for Apache, the team, and the Merlin 
end-user community - then you may perhaps capture my attention.

Stephen.


Farr, Aaron wrote:

> Hello Avaloners.
> 
> Some Background
> ===============
> 
> There was once strong support within Avalon and amongst the Merlin
> developers for a Merlin TLP.  The proposal bumped into a number of
> roadblocks and was consequently dropped.  However, one of the motivations
> for a Merlin TLP was to allow the Merlin developers to move forward without
> carrying any "legacy baggage."  
> 
> Another motivation was that developers and users who happen to depend on
> that baggage were concerned about how it was going to be handled with the
> majority of active Avalon developers focused on Merlin.  This was especially
> true since those who had generally maintained this software would be busy
> with Excalibur.
> 
> Out First Test
> ==============
> 
> With the launch of the new website came our -- the "avant-garde" Avalon team
> to steal Timothy's words -- first test in how we would handle balancing
> concerns of "legacy" Avalon users with our own concerns of moving Avalon
> forward.
> 
> We failed.  While we've finally started to work towards a compromise and
> actual resolution about framework documentation and standing (ie- the
> "Category" idea) the initial reaction we had to anyone questioning Avalon's
> plans and roadmap were abominable.  Think of it as customer service: here
> come our long time users and customers and we don't even politely listen to
> their concerns.  We insult them and tell them to get with the program.
> 
> Solutions?
> ==========
> 
> So what are we going to do about it?
> 
> What about next time?  Is this what is going to happen every time someone
> disagrees with the Avant-Garde Avalon?  Is this how we are going to resolve
> concerns?
> 
> I believe we can all do better.  I know I can.
> 
> Here are some of my thoughts about action we can take:
> 
> * We can try to further separate code and communities.  Remove stewardship 
>   of the Avalon Framework from the Avant-Garde Avalon team.  This could
>   mean finding a more neutral or friendly place for the framework (a commons
>   or maybe Excalibur) or it could mean finding fresh space for an Avant-
>   Garde Avalon by incubating Melrin as a TLP.  There appears to be new
>   support for such a move.
> 
> * We can improve how Avalon internally handles the framework and matters 
>   surrounding legacy Avalon.  This might involve partitioning our site and
>   source repository.  It might mean just changing some attitudes.
> 
> We're all smart people here.  There's got to be a way we can handle this
> better.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> J. Aaron Farr
>   SONY ELECTRONICS
>   STP SYSTEMS
>   (724) 696-7653
> 
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