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From Stephen McConnell <mcconn...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [proposal] transfer of fortress and ecm
Date Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:51:37 GMT

OK - given the qualification of intent based on the posts to this thread 
it seems to me that the PMC is being presented with a choice:

   1. Move Fortress/ECM to Codehaus
   2. Keep it here at Apache

So - looking at the alternatives in front of us.

Move Fortress/ECM to Codehaus

        benefits - user's of ECM/Fortress style components get
                   potential viable option for continuation of
                   development; Avalon dev team can get back to
                   our core interests

    disadvantages - probability of delivery of a binary
                   compatibility adapter fast approaches zero but
                   this can be offset by providing equivalent
                   functionality; user priority in an Apache
                   maintained solution is out the window

           risks - basically this comes down to predicting if
                   an initiative will retain interest or if it
                   fades away - if it fades away the user's
                   are caught between a rock and a hard place

Keep it here at Apache

        benefits - binary migration will happen, existing
                   users of ECM/Fortress semantics will be assured
                   of a codebase that will be maintained under the
                   Apache umbrella

    disadvantages - development will be discontinued outside of
                   of initiative related to migration; a fork will
                   probably occur; stuff will continue to surface
                   that distracts the avalon dev community; support
                   overhead for ECM/Fortress content may be an
                   issue relative to the community interests

           risks - a fork happens, conflicts arise, community gets
                   draw into politics as opposed to technics


Just do it.

Potential benefits to users interested in migrating can be enabled by 
expanding merlin feature set (e.g. finder facility, etc.).  Potential 
risk of on-going noise IMO overrides the risk to users of being stranded 
- simply because we can deliver equivalent functionality (its already 
real close).  But one proviso - no formal endorsement - go ahead and do 
it - no need for permission - but in the meantime Avalon maintains a 
release here independently of your initiative.  If your initiative is 
good - then fine and dandy - if not, Avalon provides the fall back solution.

I.e. don't ask the Avalon PMC to endorse good intentions.  Instead - 
demonstrate to the user community and the Avalon PMC your ability to 
provide appropriate maintenance and support. In the meantime the Avalon 
dev community can move forward with a programme that addressed 
ECM/Fortress functional requirements for the user community that want to 
leverage an Apache solution.

Cheers, Stephen.

Leo Simons wrote:

> Dear Avalon PMC,
> we all know avalon has seen some rough times lately. In an attempt to 
> end this, the new direction for avalon is towards a single, unified 
> platform that will be based on the new container, avalon-merlin. It is 
> well-understood that the Avalon PMC and a substantial part of the avalon 
> community considers this the best choice for avalon, and we wish to 
> respect that choice.
> However, concerns have risen over the legacy of the older avalon 
> products, in particular avalon-fortress, avalon-ecm, and their 
> respective dependencies. We wish to ensure the continued vitality, 
> stability and availability of these products. There are many commercial 
> and non-commercial efforts based around these products, and the new 
> unified platform offers uncertainties and risk we are not prepared to 
> accept.
> There has been discussion about, and invitations, to make that work 
> within the scope of the avalon project itself, perhaps by partitioning 
> the project into distinct subprojects, splitting avalon up into multiple 
> new projects, or taking similar measures.
> After many weeks of deliberation, we can only come to the conclusion 
> that this is a way forward that is bound to fail. As has been shown over 
> the last two years, avalon is not a project where such a setup can ever 
> work productively. We feat that by going down this path, avalon as a 
> community will suffer. This will negatively impact apache and all of 
> avalon's users. We believe there's a better alternative.
> We would like to propose that apache transfers maintenance of 
> avalon-fortress and avalon-ecm over to us. We will endeavor to create a 
> stable, solid, backwards- and forwards-compatible open source project 
> where these containers and their community can prosper under the terms 
> of the Apache License in peaceful co-existence with the avalon project.
> We will briefly explain what we mean with "maintenance transfer": our 
> suggestion is that the avalon project ceases development of these 
> codebases, and transfers them to us, intact. The transfer should include 
> branding (the "fortress" and "ecm" names) and package structure (the 
> "org.apache.avalon.fortress" package and parts of the 
> "org.apache.excalibur" and "org.apache.avalon.excalibur" packages). We 
> believe such an integral transfer is the only way to ensure a continued 
> smooth user experience.
> Without getting into further details as to what such a transfer would 
> entail right away or how it should be executed, we would like to give 
> you and the rest of the avalon community the opportunity to consider the 
> pros and cons of this move, for apache, for avalon, and for our users, 
> and then let us know if you're willing to co-operate with us on this 
> issue to the ultimate benefit of all parties involved.
> sincerely,
> Sasvata Chatterjee
> Peter Donald
> Berin Loritsch
> Leif Mortenson
> Michael Nash
> Peter Royal
> Leo Simons
> Mauro Talevi
> Carsten Ziegeler
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