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From Stephen McConnell <mcconn...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [proposal] transfer of fortress and ecm
Date Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:51:37 GMT

OK - given the qualification of intent based on the posts to this thread 
it seems to me that the PMC is being presented with a choice:

   1. Move Fortress/ECM to Codehaus
   2. Keep it here at Apache

So - looking at the alternatives in front of us.

Move Fortress/ECM to Codehaus
-----------------------------

        benefits - user's of ECM/Fortress style components get
                   potential viable option for continuation of
                   development; Avalon dev team can get back to
                   our core interests

    disadvantages - probability of delivery of a binary
                   compatibility adapter fast approaches zero but
                   this can be offset by providing equivalent
                   functionality; user priority in an Apache
                   maintained solution is out the window

           risks - basically this comes down to predicting if
                   an initiative will retain interest or if it
                   fades away - if it fades away the user's
                   are caught between a rock and a hard place

Keep it here at Apache
----------------------

        benefits - binary migration will happen, existing
                   users of ECM/Fortress semantics will be assured
                   of a codebase that will be maintained under the
                   Apache umbrella

    disadvantages - development will be discontinued outside of
                   of initiative related to migration; a fork will
                   probably occur; stuff will continue to surface
                   that distracts the avalon dev community; support
                   overhead for ECM/Fortress content may be an
                   issue relative to the community interests

           risks - a fork happens, conflicts arise, community gets
                   draw into politics as opposed to technics

Summary
-------

Just do it.

Potential benefits to users interested in migrating can be enabled by 
expanding merlin feature set (e.g. finder facility, etc.).  Potential 
risk of on-going noise IMO overrides the risk to users of being stranded 
- simply because we can deliver equivalent functionality (its already 
real close).  But one proviso - no formal endorsement - go ahead and do 
it - no need for permission - but in the meantime Avalon maintains a 
release here independently of your initiative.  If your initiative is 
good - then fine and dandy - if not, Avalon provides the fall back solution.

I.e. don't ask the Avalon PMC to endorse good intentions.  Instead - 
demonstrate to the user community and the Avalon PMC your ability to 
provide appropriate maintenance and support. In the meantime the Avalon 
dev community can move forward with a programme that addressed 
ECM/Fortress functional requirements for the user community that want to 
leverage an Apache solution.

Cheers, Stephen.


Leo Simons wrote:

> Dear Avalon PMC,
> 
> 
> we all know avalon has seen some rough times lately. In an attempt to 
> end this, the new direction for avalon is towards a single, unified 
> platform that will be based on the new container, avalon-merlin. It is 
> well-understood that the Avalon PMC and a substantial part of the avalon 
> community considers this the best choice for avalon, and we wish to 
> respect that choice.
> 
> However, concerns have risen over the legacy of the older avalon 
> products, in particular avalon-fortress, avalon-ecm, and their 
> respective dependencies. We wish to ensure the continued vitality, 
> stability and availability of these products. There are many commercial 
> and non-commercial efforts based around these products, and the new 
> unified platform offers uncertainties and risk we are not prepared to 
> accept.
> 
> There has been discussion about, and invitations, to make that work 
> within the scope of the avalon project itself, perhaps by partitioning 
> the project into distinct subprojects, splitting avalon up into multiple 
> new projects, or taking similar measures.
> 
> After many weeks of deliberation, we can only come to the conclusion 
> that this is a way forward that is bound to fail. As has been shown over 
> the last two years, avalon is not a project where such a setup can ever 
> work productively. We feat that by going down this path, avalon as a 
> community will suffer. This will negatively impact apache and all of 
> avalon's users. We believe there's a better alternative.
> 
> We would like to propose that apache transfers maintenance of 
> avalon-fortress and avalon-ecm over to us. We will endeavor to create a 
> stable, solid, backwards- and forwards-compatible open source project 
> where these containers and their community can prosper under the terms 
> of the Apache License in peaceful co-existence with the avalon project.
> 
> We will briefly explain what we mean with "maintenance transfer": our 
> suggestion is that the avalon project ceases development of these 
> codebases, and transfers them to us, intact. The transfer should include 
> branding (the "fortress" and "ecm" names) and package structure (the 
> "org.apache.avalon.fortress" package and parts of the 
> "org.apache.excalibur" and "org.apache.avalon.excalibur" packages). We 
> believe such an integral transfer is the only way to ensure a continued 
> smooth user experience.
> 
> Without getting into further details as to what such a transfer would 
> entail right away or how it should be executed, we would like to give 
> you and the rest of the avalon community the opportunity to consider the 
> pros and cons of this move, for apache, for avalon, and for our users, 
> and then let us know if you're willing to co-operate with us on this 
> issue to the ultimate benefit of all parties involved.
> 
> 
> sincerely,
> 
> 
> Sasvata Chatterjee
> Peter Donald
> Berin Loritsch
> Leif Mortenson
> Michael Nash
> Peter Royal
> Leo Simons
> Mauro Talevi
> Carsten Ziegeler
> 
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> 


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