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From Berin Loritsch <blorit...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Future Direction for Avalon
Date Mon, 05 May 2003 21:16:27 GMT
Leo Simons wrote:
> Berin Loritsch wrote:
>>>    b) Cornerstone components become individual excalibur components
>>>       instead of one large JAR.
> excalibur components? Does this imply s/cornerstone/excalibur/? I'm fine 
> with that, but this might hurt some cornerstone users. Specifically 
> thinking of james.

Not necessarily.  Just using Excalibur as the place to store/host them.

>>>    c) The components use the "Tool" jar from both Fortress and
>>>       Phoenix and generate the meta data in the proper locations.
> +1, though what you mean is the component authors use that jar and the 
> components are not even aware of its existence :D

Right.  It means that the JAR Just Works(TM).

>>> 5) Work on Avalon 5 Framework
> scepticism here. Sounds like fun, but worried it will hurt business 
> needs and investments. I don't have business needs to support anymore, 
> so for me personally that's not an issue ;)

With a SpearHead microkernel and something that does not explicitly
*require* A4 we can play around and see what works.  I want A5 to focus
on simplicity/simplifying A4.

>>> This does not mean that we should do everything in this order, however
>>> these are all the things on the table development-wise.
> There are other things on the table not answered:
> 6) where is phoenix going?
> 7) where is fortress going?

As to Phoenix/Fortress they are released (or almost released).  We
continue to support them, and satisfy user requests for them.

> 8) where is merlin going?

That is up to all of us.  Do we all want to support it?  If so, we need
to dive into the code to understand it.  We also need to see what
features it is missing and where it diverges from the standards we have
been trying to come to agreement for.  Once we have those issues
taken care of we can release it.

The all important question is if we as a community can support the
demand of three containers + the new one we are developing.

> I'm not saying we should all discuss that as part of a single thread, 
> just pointing out they are still there and in development :D


> then there is the
> 9) infrastructure
> -----------------
>    a) tracker tool. Bugzilla is painful, jira great, but there is not
>       an asf-hosted install. Currently kinda stalemate.
>    b) build tools. We are close to 90% coverage wrt
>       often-successfully-built-by-gump, we are down to three tools
>       (ant 1.5.1, forrest cvs-snapshot, maven beta9), yet the site
>       still keeps breaking
>       (http://avalon.apache.org/whoweare/index.html) and unit tests
>       often still fail. I am frustrated with the lack of improvement.
>       Maven "feels" like a potential answer but docs are lacking and the
>       vector of change is amazingly high.

This is a major issue.  However, if we can get the Bundle API working
with an ANT tool, we can work well with any kind of packaging

>    c) distribution. We really should work with various parties to
>       make http://www.apache.org/dev/mirrors.html reflect our needs,
>       then follow it.


>    d) successful automation. Every committer should be able to type
>       in a single command to update (part of) the website (without
>       breaking it), and able to type a single command to properly
>       package and upload a distribution artifact. Of course, this
>       comes after being able to type a single command to build any
>       part of the project.


Do you have ideas for how to do that?

"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".

-----Chris Rock

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