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From Leo Simons <leosim...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] lifecycle release
Date Fri, 14 Mar 2003 09:34:57 GMT
Peter Donald wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 01:57, Leo Simons wrote:
> 
>>could you either retract your vetoes issued as part of this thread or
>>reply to my last e-mail concerning those vetoes (or do both, of course)?
> 
> Whats to reply.

The point is that you've issued some vetoes which I and others believe 
to be applying to something not subject to a veto. We need to agree on 
this point: letting vetoes lying around is not good. So a good reply 
would be to conceed that the vetoes are inappropriate, or provide 
arguments that will convince us that they are.

--

The point is also that other points you've made in this thread about the 
technical validity of the package should be addressed. If a package has 
no use or an unacceptable implementation, we shouldn't release it, hence 
claims like this need to be addressed when made, if the intent is indeed 
to release the package.

I need you to make me see where the problems lie in that respect, so a 
good reply in that respect would probably be some code examples. If it's 
not possible for you to explain these things to me (assuming here I am 
technically competent enough to understand the issues), we probably need 
to use some kind of poll or voting mechanism to get the sum of the parts 
of the developer community to settle this. But again, having the stamp 
of "this is a bad idea" on a package we're readying for release is 
something we should not do.

--

On a personal note, I am also pretty annoyed with your whining about us 
doing a "half-assed job" in various respects. I think the picture you 
paint is wrong, and you should either stop painting it and "get over it" 
or back things up.

Also, you are a smart guy who knows quite well how the voting and 
discussion process flows here, and dragging out an explanation of 
something I know you understand perfectly well (as you taught me!) is 
just as annoying, so please stop that too.

But this is just a request at this point, even if it would make my life 
easier if you would, so please do give it some thought.

--

finally...

> What possible advantage is 
> there to pushing bits around? Would it not be more productive to focus on 
> improving the quality of the code?

It would be _much_ more productive to just do stuff, and let others do 
stuff too, rather than veto things because they might not be very 
productive. Your vetoes are forcing a response, where we would probably 
could have fixed all issues with the package, done several bugfix 
releases, and implement an interceptor-based version of the package, in 
the time it has taken various people to craft those responses and 
investigate the issue.

So, turning this around: what possible advantage is there to being a 
royal pain in the butt trying to block these things? Would it not be 
much more productive to focus on improving the quality of the code?

greetz,

- LSD



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