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From "Leo Sutic" <leo.su...@inspireinfrastructure.com>
Subject RE: [PROPOSAL] PMC Voting Process (version 2)
Date Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:51:09 GMT
Stephen, some quick comments and questions:

> From: Stephen McConnell [mailto:mcconnell@apache.org] 
> 
> Leo Sutic wrote:
> >
> > PROPOSAL TEXT
> >
> > = PMC Voting Procedures =
> >
> > This document details how the Avalon PMC has agreed to 
> handle voting. 
> > ASF policy will always supercede this document. 
> 
> 
> Suggested replacement text:
> 
>    This document is revision 2 of the adopted Avalon PMC Policies
>    and Procedures. It established the rules under which the project
>    operations and it maintained by the PMC.
> 
> General comment: The notion of ASF always superceding the Avalon PMC
> procedures is backwards. In fact the reality is that the Avalon PMC
> procedures extend and or qualify ASF procedures.

OK, sounds good to me. As you say, the current formulation is a bit
backward.
 
> >
> >
> > == People Involved in the Voting Process ==
> >
> > === The Proposer ===
> >
> > The proposer is the one who comes up with the discussion 
> that needs to 
> > be addressed.  The proposer will follow the procedures listed under 
> > the heading "Prior to the Vote". 
> 
> 
> Suggested replacement text (simplification of wording):
> 
>   Any member of the Avalon community may initiate a proposal to
>   the Avalon PMC.When initiating discussion on a PMC matter, the
>   member shall follow the procedures refered to under the heading
>   "Prior to the Vote".

[Waiting a bit with this one. See below.]

> >
> >
> > === The Vote Administrator ===
> >
> > The vote administrator is the person who tallies the votes 
> and reports 
> > the results back to the developer list.  The person who 
> actually puts 
> > a proposal up for vote is usually the vote administrator, although 
> > this task can be taken on by someone else. 
> 
> 
> Suggested improvement (simplification and clarification of text):
> 
>   The vote administrator is normally a PMC Member initiating a
>   vote on a particular resolution.  The vote administrator normally
>   tallies vote results and reports the results back to the
>   appropriate mailing list (Avalon PMC list or Avalon developer
>   list).

[Waiting a bit with this one. See below.]
 
> >
> >
> > === The Voter ===
> >
> > A voter is someone who expresses support or opposition for 
> the subject 
> > being voted on.  A voter must be an Avalon PMC member. Input is 
> > appreciated from committers and all other members of the community, 
> > but only votes from PMC members are counted. 
> 
> 
> Suggested improvement (simplification and clarification of text):
> 
>   A voter is a PMC member expressing support, opposition or
>   abstantion on a particular proposal.
> 
> Comment: Input from comitters should be encoraged during the 
> disucssion
> phase, not the vote phase.

[Waiting a bit with this one. See below.]

> >
> > == Prior to the Vote ==
> >
> > Before any vote can take place, the subject must be 
> discussed with the 
> > larger Avalon development community.  All such discussions 
> take place 
> > on the Avalon developer mailing list or the Avalon PMC 
> mailing list, 
> > and have the text "[PROPOSAL]" in the subject line.  That practice 
> > alerts the developers to the fact that you eventually 
> intend to call a 
> > vote on the subject. 
> 
> 
> Suggested improvement (simplification and clarification of text):
> 
>   Before initiation of a vote, discussion shall take place
>   on either the Avalon development or PMC list.  Proposal
>   shall be sigifed as such via inclusion of the test "[PROPOSAL]"
>   in the message subject.  This practice alerts member to the fact
>   that you eventually intend to call a vote on the subject.
> 
> Comment: It is not a requirement for votes to be disucssed in 
> the "larger
> Avalon Community" and as such I dropped the phrase.

[Waiting a bit with this one. See below.]

> >
> >
> > == The Vote ==
> >
> > When the proposal is ready to be adopted by the community, the 
> > Proposer will call for a vote.  All votes occur on the Avalon 
> > developers mailing list or on the Avalon PMC mailing list, and have 
> > the text "[PMC:VOTE]" in the subject line.  That practice 
> alerts the 
> > developers to the fact that the prior proposal is now ready to vote 
> > on, and discussion should stop for the proposal. 
> 
> 
> 
> Suggested improvement (simplification and clarification of text):
> 
>   Once discussion on a subject has concluded, a member of the PMC
>   may initiate a vote under the PMC or developer list. A vote is
>   initiated under a email message with a subject commecing with
>   "[PMC:VOTE]".  That practice alerts members to the fact that the
>   prior proposal has moved to the voting stage and that discussion
>   has terminated.
 
[Waiting a bit with this one. See below.]

> >
> >
> > === How to Vote ===
> >
> > The voter responds to the original call for vote with an 
> expression of 
> > support, opposition, or abstention.  The exact way to express the 
> > voter's position is listed below:
> >
> > * +1  a vote supporting the subject
> > * +0  a vote abstaining from the subject, but showing some support.
> > * -0  a vote abstaining from the subject, but showing disapproval.
> > * -1  a vote opposing the subject 
> 
> 
> Suggested improvement (simplification and clarification of text):
> 
>   A member of the PMC may register a vote in support, opposition or
>   abstention in accordance with the following protocol:
> 
>     * +1  a vote supporting the resolution
>     * +0  a vote of positivate abstaintion
>     * -0  a vote of negative abstaintion
>     * -1  a vote opposing the resolution

[Waiting a bit with this one. See below.]

> >
> >
> > === Counting Votes ===
> >
> > The vote administrator will count only the last vote from 
> each voter.  
> > That means a voter may change their vote at any time during the 
> > duration of the vote.  It is the vote administrator's duty to make 
> > sure that the voter is qualified to make a vote on the 
> subject.  The 
> > qualifications are listed under the sub heading "Types of Votes".
> 
> 
> Suggested improvement (simplification and clarification of text):
> 
>     The last vote sumbitted by a PMC member on close of the
>     vote shall stand as the voters position on the resolution.
> 
> Comment: The rest has already been covered and does not need to
> be restated.

[Waiting a bit with this one. See below.]

> >
> >
> > === Types of Votes ===
> >
> > The PMC may vote on any number of procedures.  It is not the PMC's 
> > role to affect the technical direction of the Avalon 
> project, but its 
> > procedural direction.  There are two classes of votes: a Qualified 
> > Majority Vote and a
> > Normal Majority Vote. 
> 
> 
> Suggested improvement (following suggested text):
> 
>    There are two classes of votes: a Qualified Majority Vote
>  and a Normal Majority Vote.

Sounds fine.
 
> > ==== Qualified Majority Vote ====
> >
> > Any vote that affects the PMC charter, affects the rules 
> that govern 
> > the PMC is a Qualified Majority Vote.  For this type of 
> vote to pass, 
> > it requires support from two-thirds (2/3) of the voters. 
> 
> 
> Suggested improvement (following suggested text):
> 
>   A Qualified Majority Vote vote concerns changes in two
>   documents - "Avalon PMC Charter" or "Avalon PMC Policies
>   and Procedures". A Qualified Majority Vote requires a
>   quorum of at least 3 votes, or, at least votes from at
>   least (2/3) of the PMC membership - whichever is the  
>   higher.

It is my understanding that quorum is 50%, irrespective of the type
of vote:

   (b) Quorum Calculations

       Quorum on all motions shall be at least three (3) and not
       less than 50% of the elected members (rounded up to the 
       nearest non-fractional number).

   ...

   (e) Qualified Majority Vote 

       A vote undertaken within the scope of a Qualified Vote as  
       defined by definition [5], meeting preconditions defined under  
       Article 1 (a), shall require a majority of greater than 2/3, 
       shall be subject to the quorum calculations as defined under 
       Article 1 (b), and vote duration as defined by Article 1 (f).

I think your paragraph describes something different here.
 
> > ==== Normal Majority Vote ====
> >
> > All votes that do not fall under the heading of Qualified Majority 
> > Vote are handled as a Normal Majority Vote. If it passes 
> the PMC vote 
> > with more than half (1/2) of voters supporting it, then the 
> vote has 
> > passed.
> >
> 
> Suggested improvement:
> 
>   A Normal Vote is any vote outside of the scope of a Qualified
>   Majority Vote. A Normal Majority Vote requires a quorum of at
>   least 3 votes, or, at least votes from at least (1/2) of the
>   PMC membership - whichever is the higher.
 
Same as the Qualified Majority Vote paragraph - quorum is 3 voters
or 50% of PMC, whichever is highest. But to *pass* a Qualified Majority
Vote requires *support* from 2/3 of voters, while a Normal Majority
Vote only requires support from 1/2.

> > .
> >
> >
> > === Voting Qualifications ===
> >
> > In order for any vote to be considered binding it must have quorum, 
> > and be held for the proper amount of time. 
> 
> 
> I don't think this is needed as it is stated under the 
> respective quorum 
> statement and vote duration statement.

[Waiting a bit with this one. See below.]

> >
> >
> > ==== Quorum ====
> >
> > For all votes, there must be at least three (3) voters and 
> half (1/2) 
> > of the PMC must cast a vote. 
> 
> No longer required irelative to above proposed text.

I disagree...
 
> >
> >
> > ==== Duration ====
> >
> > All votes will last for at least a week.  If there is not quorum 
> > within the first week, then the length of time will be extended for 
> > one additional week.  If the vote still does not have 
> enough support, 
> > then the vote is considered failed.  The proposer can 
> choose to bring 
> > it up later when quorum is available.
> 
> 
> Suggested improvement (simplification and clarity):
> 
>   A voting process thall remain open for an inital period
>   of 7 days.  If quorum is established within the period the
>   vote shall be consider closed.  If quorum has not been
>   achieved, the voting process shall continue for an addition
>   7 days following which the process shall close definitavely.  
>   If at the end of 14 days the vote has not established quroum
>   based on the number of votes registered, the vote shall be
>   considered as failed.

[Waiting a bit with this one. See below.]
 
> >
> > == After the Vote ==
> >
> > When the vote is closed, the results of the vote are 
> summarized by the 
> > Vote Administrator.  The vote administrator will send an 
> email to the 
> > Avalon
> > developer's list with the text "[PMC:VOTE-RESULT]" in the 
> subject that 
> > has the summary.  The summary will include the count of all +1, +0, 
> > -0, and -1 responses, and the final verdict of whether the subject 
> > passed. 
> 
> 
> Suggested improvement (simplification and clarity):
> 
>   On conclusion of a voting process, the vote admistrator
>   may forward a notification of the vote result to the
>   appropriate mailing list under the subject
>   "[PMC:VOTE-RESULT]".  The vote result should include a
>   summary of the supporting, opposing and absention votes
>   registered in the process and the result of the vote.

[Waiting a bit with this one. See below.]

> >
> >
> > == Disagreements ==
> >
> > Disagreements concerning voting may be directed to the Chair. The 
> > Chair's opinion shall be final and binding upon the PMC. 
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> >
> >
> > END PROPOSAL TEXT
> >
>
> Looking forward to the next iteration.

I'm holding off a bit waiting for comments from Berin / Leo Simons / 
anyone else.

Basically, your changes that fix mistakes and the ones that were
related to the points I listed are fine. The changes that are
merely stylistic I'd like to hold back for a little while - I
don't want us to try to find the most beautiful text for this
proposal. That said, I think at least some of your changes do
clean things up.

/LS


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