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From Stefano Mazzocchi <stef...@apache.org>
Subject Re: The Rules of Open-Source Programming
Date Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:42:57 GMT
Sam Ruby wrote:
> Leo Sutic wrote:
>  > 1) Is a dialog between the board a Peter being held, with the
>  >     aim of resolving the issues that caused his suspension?
> Yes.
>  > 2) Progress? This has dragged on for a full week already.
>  >     I consider a simple yes/no response enough.
> The dialog has not broken off.  I would characterize the current
> discussions as still being in exploratory mode - trying to identify
> where the real issues are.
>   - - - - -
> My reason for this new thread was to let people know that Peter is not
> the only one who needs to change for all this to work.  I chose to focus
> on the notion of a reference container as it was (1) timely, (2)
> relevant to the community, (3) not technical, (4) and one where there is
> consensus.
> Let me paraphrase how this discussion went:
>    LeoS: I propose that Phoenix no longer be considered the reference
>       container.
>    PeterD: Phoenix has never been a "reference container" and I have
>     specifically gone out of my way to discourage such terminology
>    LeoS: Umm, the website says (first paragraph)...
>    PeterD: That's a holdover that came about because....
> I can only imagine how this would have played out if it were between
> Pier and Stefano in the early days of Cocoon.  Both would have been
> calling each other idiots (and worse), and, more importantly, calling
> theselves idiots (and worse).  Others would be agast at such behavior
> (and actually were), but the end result was healthier to the community.
> The current climate in Avalon appears to be one in which every mistep is
> taken as an indication of a character flaw.
> My perception is that the above dicussion should have involved Peter
> saying at least "oops" or perhaps a more formal "I stand corrected", but
> I suspect that had he done so, people would have piled on to rub his
> nose in it.  And not in the friendly way that Pier and Stefano did.

I'm reading this sitting on Jon Steven's couch with Jon right here in 
front of me. You might know how much Jon and I fought in public over 
technical details. We can't probably agree on any single technical 
point, but everytime I come to San Francisco, I call him.

Gosh, you people don't get it: I was trying to piss Peter off! I was 
trying to get him touch that irrational part that I value. I was trying 
to have him say loud and clear what he thinks about me and why and so on.

And then having the possibility to apologize. To make it up. To earn 
respect and to show him my own. Human respect, because that's what 
counts, no stupid technical skills which are just a geeky way to protect 
our smart brains from those irrational things that don't compute.

But this isn't going anyway and I'm starting to think it's probably a 
lost cause.

Too bad. I keep seeing more than there is and I'm using a lot of 
emotional energy from this community, so I'll stop now.

Sorry for having wasted some of your emotional energy.

Stefano Mazzocchi                               <stefano@apache.org>

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