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From Nicola Ken Barozzi <nicola...@apache.org>
Subject Re: thoughts on Avalon PMC
Date Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:37:54 GMT

Peter Donald wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:53, Leo Sutic wrote:
> 
>>Peter Donald wrote:
>> > Those who vote on Avalon/Framework will most likely be
>> > a superset of Avalon/Phoenix developers but even if they
>> > are not and the Avalon/Framework make a decsion that
>> > negatively effects Avalon/Phoenix or didn't take into consideration
>> > the needs of Avalon/Phoenix then Avalon/Phoenix is free
>> > to drop Avalon/Framework and create it's own framework.
>>
>>...
>>
>> > In the end darwin wins out.
>>
>>Seems like you're praising the opportunity for turf wars and conflict
>>here...
> 
> 
> I am praising the ability for people to develope their ideas and code unfetted 
> by people who may feel threatened by such development. As long as the proper 
> forms are followed there should be no problem.
> 
> You have never heard said that "The ability to fork is one of the best 
> incentives for forks not to occur". 

I've been reading this thread and *finally* we got to the core of our 
problems, and are able to sort them out :-)

With discussions @ incubaror, community, and many other places, I've 
reached the conclusion that *all* of the people speaking here are right.

*All* of them.

Peter (et all) is right, you should vote if you are active.
Stephen (et all) is right, we should not fracture.

There is a simple way of doing this: _ONE CODEBASE_

How the *heck* do you guys think we can move along _a_ project when 
effectively we have *dozens* of them?!?!?

Imagine this: One Avalon, One Framework, One implementation.

Many *proposals*.

And when one wants to challenge the main codebase, he can with the 
"rules for revolutionaries", by making us switch from proposal to main 
codebase [http://incubator.apache.org/rules-for-revolutionaries.html]

This is roughly what I envision:

1) We form an Avalon PMC *now*, and have it made active at ApacheCon.

2) We make a new CVS module calles "avalon", and start voting package by 
package, class by class, about what to include in the new module, and 
commit then one by one.

2-note) ATM we have *no* implementation to commit.

3) We discuss about a common container, and *that* will go in Avalon. 
Will it take months? Years? I don't care. If it can be done, it will, 
else it means it can't be done (here at least).

4) In the meantime, all the containers move to 
avalon/scratchpad/mycomtainer*/**

5) In the meantime we move the Excalibur Components to Apache Commons, 
by clearly stating their container dependencies.

It will take months, and hard work, but IMHO it's workable.

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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