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From Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [Proposal] Breaking up Avalon
Date Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:09:44 GMT
"Interesting" edit. 

Forwarding personal emails is not something that is going to gain you respect. 
It is extremely poor behaviour and given the sensitive nature of the content 
it is innapropriate and undermines peoples trust in you. 

Anyways and to the claims

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:02, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> I have also recieved previous mails from you that clearly explain that
> some development at Avalon has been going on in "private" lists. No
> wonder some committers and I couldn't understand what was going on.

Or putting it another way. Things that would have previously been developed at 
Apache are now being done outside Apache. The main reason being that Avalon 
is not much of a fun place to be involved. 

Metaclass was moved out because the developer who offered to continue the work 
on it but was uncomfortable working in Avalon given the environment.

A few people have taken up the interceptor stuff I was talking about but they 
didn't want to do it here. There is at least three different people who all 
decided to work on it. I just made them aware of each other and they got down 
to working with each other.

Another container that hosts components using A-F is undergoing development 
outside of Apache. I don't really code much on it but those who do have 
chosen to continue working on it outside Avalon until they can get a beta 
release together at which point they will hopefully announce their presence 
here ;) 

Even if they never come into Avalon there is nothing wrong with their 
continuing development outside of Avalon and her politics. Would you condemn 
Turbine for developing plexus? Or perhaps you will condem Cocoon if they 
choose to develope their own container? Me - I see no problem in it. I think 
it is healthy and a good sign that we are offering something useful. 

And so one and so forth.

Development only occurs off list because people don't feel comfortable doing 
it on list or don't like the environment. I am always going to provide 
volunteers with an environment that they want to work in if that is at all 
possible. You can not tell volunteers what to do, you can not force them to 
do anything. You can suggest, gently nag, prod and poke but in the end it is 
upto them how they contribute.

>  > If you don't retract your acceptance I intend to send an email to
>  > both the  avalon group and the board outlining what I believe
>  > is going on and why it is not in the best interests of Avalon
>  > to rush through the proposal.

And why did I do this ? Because your nomination would inevitably lead to 
division which is just what is occuring. 

Would have been much better if someone who had contributed to avalon 
consistently over a long period had been nominated. The best candidate in my 
opinion would have been Berin.


Peter Donald
 Logic: The art of being wrong with confidence...

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