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From Leo Simons <leosim...@apache.org>
Subject Re: PMC et al
Date Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:05:58 GMT
On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 19:21, Federico Barbieri wrote:
> Leo Simons wrote:
> >Hi Fede,
> >On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 16:56, Federico Barbieri wrote:
> >>Berin Loritsch wrote:
> >>>I am glad we are finally considering a true Avalon PMC.
> >>>I have long thought that we would be a good candidate for
> >>>a top level project, maybe even more than one.  Other than
> >>>standard legalese for all PMC charters, we should look at
> >>>what we explicitly desire for the Avalon PMC.
> >>>
> >>I see you all agree on this and I'm happy the Avalon community is strong 
> >>and united but...
> >>IMHO there is not *one* single reason why creating an Avalon PMC and 
> >>moving discussions from here to there would make things *any* better. 
> >>It's Yet Another Mailing List.
> >
> >first of, thanks for taking the time to respond!
> >
> sound sarcastic...

it was not intended as such at all. I think it's very important that
emeritus committers such as yourself participate in discussions such as
this one.

> >This is not about moving discussions at all (I suspect that almost all
> >of them will all stay on avalon-dev; the thing that'd change is that the
> >list moves from avalon-dev@jakarta.apache.org to dev@avalon.apache.org).
> >
> >The creation of a PMC is in line with the general restructuring
> >happening at apache right now, and has to do with legal security,
> >increased community-sense on an apache-wide scope, etc etc.
> >
> Afaik there is not *one* line about how to restructure jakarta.

true. The discussion about restructuring jakarta is not happening here;
it is happening (has happened) on other mailing lists like
community@apache.org. From those discussions about restructuring jakarta
(and apache as a whole) came the ideas of making several of the jakarta
subprojects 'self-managing'.
You will probably appreciate the fact that (paraphrasing Greg Stein) the
Jakarta PMC is agreeable to setting up an Avalon PMC, as are the greater
apache and jakarta communities.

> If you think the apache community avalon framework wise, what you are 
> doing is forking the framework specification because you want to have a 
> different container implementation.

hmm. I can understand why you are seeing things that way.

The way I see it, what is happening now is that multiple 'container
implementations' (the HTTPD PMC, the Jakarta PMC, the XML PMC, PHP
PMC....) are being reviewed, and a common framework extracted from those
(most of the work on this is happening on community@apache.org and
general@incubat.apache.org). The "new Avalon" will be a 'refactored'
community centered around that common framework.
IOW, what I see is the multiple communities that exist at apache coming
together, exchanging thoughts, deciding on some foundation-wide
refactoring together. Avalon is one of many projects following that
general trend.


- Leo Simons

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