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From "Berin Loritsch" <blorit...@citi-us.com>
Subject Regarding Phoenix, and my book
Date Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:39:42 GMT
All this turmoil and change couldn't be coming at a worse time.  I am still
on my book (I know it is horribly past due).  However with all the talk
about scrapping
old code and working one "One container to rule them.  One container to find
and in the darkness bind them." (with appologies to J.R.R. Tolkien), we are
rendering a project in work obsolete before it is done.

The thing is that both Framework and Phoenix are released code.  Both of
have consumers and users.  I am _really_ glad we have a users list or we
be scaring off what few we have right now.  What are we going to say to
projects that depend on Phoenix, or those of us who managed to convince
superiors to use the released and ready Phoenix?

The bottom line is this:

* Phoenix is too big to be a reference implementation, so under Stefano's
  "Cooperate or else" proposal we would have to move Phoenix somewhere else.

* Phoenix is released code and needs to be supported.  The question is

* There are a few developers who do the bulk of the work, but I can't give
  absolute statistics as to the size of its community.  I have the
impression that
  the developer community is not large at all.

* If Phoenix has to move outside of Avalon, then I can host it in one of my
  D-Haven.org projects at sourceforge.  I consider this the last resort, and
  I really don't want to see it happen--but if it means that Phoenix lives
  all I have to do is point the readers of my book to the new resting place.

The question is what is best for the community?  We need to decide quickly,
because I have deadlines I am already past and all this uncertainty is only
to delay me further.  We need to be clear about our intentions regarding
Phoenix at this point.  If Phoenix will no longer exist as part of the "new
then It is welcome with my external projects.  If Phoenix has guarantees
that it
will be supported while the work on the "supercontainer" continues then we
can leave it here.

My intentions are not to be devisive, but I have real needs that are met by
the existing code.  All I want is guarantees from the community that Phoenix
is continued to be supported while the "supercontainer" is still vaporware.
When the supercontainer is finished, we can decide what to do at that point.

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