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From Stefano Mazzocchi <stef...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [vote] design constraint #0 for Avalon 5
Date Sun, 16 Jun 2002 19:52:18 GMT
Peter Donald wrote:
> At 05:47 PM 6/14/2002 +0200, you wrote:
> >Hi everyone,
> >
> >I would like to have your vote on this design constraint on Avalon 5:
> >
> >   all possible efforts should be done to avoid avalon forking
> Avalon has already been forked.

Definition of fork: when you have two projects with different
communities, with a complete overlap between the two.

Examples: FreeBSD vs. NetBSD, Emacs vs. XEmacs, Tomcat 3.x vs. Tomcat

Using this terminology, Avalon has not (yet?) been forked.

> There is a whole bunch of stuff in there
> that was added in for Cocoon that is not used anywhere else.

All the avalon classes that we ship in Cocoon are those hosted on the
avalon CVS, with no changes whatsoever. An extension is not a fork.

> A5 will unify
> the model or else it wont occur at all. A4 may not be perfect but it is
> definelty good enough for me. The problems with it are due to misuse of
> features and lack of unified metadata or container utilities.

I agree with you 100%. I would like to see more unification of the
different avalon containers and component metadata and various
utilities. Still, I haven't find a 'plan' that outlines what the
problems are: I was just called to judge the solutions.

> Metadata support is underway and hopefuly will ease that pain. Container
> utilities are also on the way and hopefully that will encourage people to
> not misuse features (by not natively supporting them).

Yes, this is a good migration path.

> >So, what do you think?
> It is a good idea. However if anyone was to try and force usage patterns
> that result from a specific  container - especially when those usage
> patterns could be considered problematic then I think it wont work.

Agreed. But 'problematic' must be stated with precision and with
openmindness. Stating that ComponentNotFoundException is a system
exception and if you use it differently you are wrong, is not, IMO,
stating any problems, but just a personal esthetic vision. (which I
personally happen to resonate with, for what's worth, but I'm not the
cocoon-dev community, I'm just one of them)
> I have looked at all the containers and believe I know where we can
> continue to work together but there are somethings there will need to be
> compromises from all. 

Absolutely. I'm here to make sure those compromises are reached.

> However when I hear predictions of Doom and
> ultimatims I find myself thinking A4 is going to be about for a long time
> yet ;)

For sure it will take long time for the migration, no matter how hard we

A5 might not happen at all because of social issues (nothing technical
at all). I simply wanted to raize the issue.

Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<stefano@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche

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