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From Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>
Subject Re: The need for 'hints'
Date Wed, 19 Jun 2002 02:34:53 GMT
On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:45, Pete Carapetyan wrote:
> Peter Royal wrote:
> >Having worked with Phoenix (*and* Cocoon/ECM) I came to the understanding
> >that you and Stephen are promoting the correct solution. And the common
> >metainfo discussions are the path that we should be persuing with vigor at
> >the moment.
> >
> >I'm just not as good as you at the clever and sarcastic explanations
> I can't figure out if you guys are all just young where it doesn't hurt
> yet, or I have just become too tender,

In most cases you have to be fairly thick skinned and egotistical to survive 
most opensource projects ;) Especially ones like Avalon/Framework which is 
lite on code and heavy on conceptual ideas.

> The phrase someone laid on me, I think, is *ad hominum* which describes
> the making of a personal attack as a part of the discussion. 

I think you will find that the "personal attacks" are less part of argument 
and more decoration on argument aimed at producing a response. People tend to 
defend their ideas more strongly when their names are attached to message.

For example, recently the discussion on whether Stephens use of short role 
names (like "ssl-socket-manager") vs the rest of us that use interface name. 
I initially thought he was on some religious tangent. Only by keep 
"attacking" him where we able to discover that the reason he was using them 
was quite sensible (namely as he exposes the names to assemblers/admins). 
Other containers (like Cocoons or Myrmidons) actually map the classnames to 
"shortnames" and thus never expose admins/assemblers to the long names. If we 
hadn't had badgered Stephen we wouldn't know this and thus we couldn't try to 
fix it in the future. Now that we know that this practice has arisen from 
weaknesses in Phoenix/Merlin we can now attempt to fix the weaknesses in the 

Anyways most of us have been around long enough to know that no offense is 
intended - however it is probably not so obvious to newer people ;)

BTW this is very very very very very mild to some of the discussions in 
history ;)


Peter Donald
| We shall not cease from exploration, and the |
|  end of all our exploring will be to arrive  |
|  where we started and know the place for the |
|            first time -- T.S. Eliot          |

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