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From "Stephen McConnell" <mcconn...@osm.net>
Subject RE: [vote] Excalibur CVS
Date Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:42:42 GMT

Peter Donald wrote:
> At 05:37  20/4/01 +0200, Stephen McConnell wrote:
> >Can I just confirm a couple of things -
> >perhaps its just me sifting through what is noise and what is
> >serious.... but I would appreciate confirmation of the following
> >two points:
> >
> >  1. there was a proposed creating a new CVS to which there was
> >     uniform disagreement ... therefore, I am presuming that it
> >     now off the agenda (after all, this is an open process -
> >     and votes count)
> It has been vetoed ... wait a few months and I will surely bring
> it up again though ;)

Your assuming that I'm going to be on this list in two months!!
Given the level of noise your creating in opposition to the "general"
interest in getting a beta out (as opposed you to "personal" idea of
what a beta should be), I'll be out of here.  Leo was right - some of
us will just get too pissed-off because we have better things to do
with our time.

> >  2. I'm assuming the "veto" comment was off-the-cuff and should
> >     not be taken seriously ... (but if I'm wrong, then there is
> >     a very serious issue!)
> No it was serious. I have already accepted change that I don't think
> are 100% optimal. My opinion is that there should be nothing in
> org.apache.avalon.* namespace (bad advertising). It is much better to
> make everything in other namespaces but use advertising to get message
> across about where it is from (ie AvalonFramework or avalon-framework
> as name of jars). I also don't like idea of merging in components+aut
> code, nor merging framework code and component code etc. The
> implementation-interface non-separation is also a little yucky but not
> something that I think is worth persuing yet. All in all I have made
> many a compromise to try to bring Avalon to beta ... and I was willing
> to support it as such. However a straw can break a camels back ;)

OK, lets see how much the camel can take.
You are personally not happy with attributing beta to Avalon and yet it
seems that everyone else on this list wants immediate resolution of this.
You are opposing this strongly but at the same time you are not coming
up with concrete proposals.  This means that members of this list, and
people considering take-up of Avalon as framework are obliged to put up
with things like:

    > From: Peter Donald
    > Sent: Friday, 20 April, 2001 01:49
    > well I guess I differ in opinion ... enough to veto a beta
    > release ;)

    > From: Peter Donald [mailto:donaldp@apache.org]
    > consider this the line in the sand - no further will I
    > compromise

    > From: Peter Donald
    > You can beta it all you want ... however don't expect me to
    > stake my reputation on it or support it in anyway. If you are
    > willing to do that .... then thats your perogative.

Lets be real - the above comments simply establish a context for moving
forward, with, or without your support. The bottom line is that failure to
move to beta because you cannot get your way simply means that you are the
principal obstacle.  If moving to beta means loosing your contribution and
knowledge about Avalon, then this is an acceptable loss - because if we
move to beta we (the Avalon fledgling community) will die. I don't want to
see that happen - instead I want to see a broader process - an open process
reflecting the consensus of the community - higher levels of contribution
and active participation - a community where your opinions matter but a
community where your opinion is just that - one opinion amongst many others.

Cheers, Steve.

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