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From Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Migration of git repository
Date Tue, 09 Jun 2015 02:05:36 GMT
I don't see this as a fight against maven.  Maven says that if you want to
publish, you have to have an immutable version with a solid version number
that is comparable.  If you don't want to publish to the world, then you
use the snapshot or similar local caching methods.

You are saying you have versions that you don't want to really publish but
want to use for development.  That fits the second case for maven.





On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Ian Maxon <imaxon@uci.edu> wrote:

> >My not-totally-thought-out suggestion for problem #2 would be to
> not "solve" it at all, and simply state that the tip of Asterix requires
> the latest tip of Hyracks to build. That's the way we all develop code on
> our local machines anyway, as far as I know. If there are no outside
> clients that we have to be concerned about between releases, doesn't this
> solve the problem?
>
>
> This is what we have today. AsterixDB already relies on the Hyracks
> snapshot release, and in the developer instructions we tell folks to
> install Hyracks first by checking it out and doing 'mvn install'.
>
> The issue with this is that it makes build+test hard, because we are
> fighting against maven when we do this. Maven wants to resolve the
> dependencies based on version, so when we don't have versions that convey
> the actual dependencies that are present (e.g. between git revisions), it
> gets messy. One has to somehow use a side channel to convey the true
> dependence (like the topic field in Gerrit).
>
> >As a side note, the original proposal to merge the codebases would "solve"
> [sweep under the rug] problem #1 for Asterix, at the cost of quite possibly
> making it worse for VXQuery.
>
> Right now VXQuery and Pregelix depend on a stable Hyracks version, so
> changes in Hyracks master could require changes in VXQuery or Pregelix in
> order for them to use later versions. This could happen (or have already
> happened) today, without any notice until someone tried to upgrade the
> versions. Whether or not Hyracks and AsterixDB happen to live in one git
> repository or two has no effect on that. The reason for it is simply that
> we have chosen not to test all projects upstream of Hyracks at the
> granularity of commits, and we can change that either way.
>
> - Ian
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Chris Hillery <chillery@hillery.land>
> wrote:
>
> > I think maybe part of the reason we're having a tough time figuring this
> > out is that we're conflating two different problems.
> >
> > 1. We want to ensure that changes to Hyracks don't break Asterix,
> VXQuery,
> > etc.
> >
> > 2. We fairly often need to make related changes in Hyracks and Asterix
> that
> > "go together", ie, Asterix won't build/work with the new change until it
> > can see the corresponding Hyracks change.
> >
> > Those really are completely different problems and may well need
> different
> > solutions.
> >
> > IMHO, the first one is "easy" [*] to solve via testing. Either we add
> > proper API testing to Hyracks and ensure Asterix/VXQuery/etc only use
> > proper APIs, and/or we add Asterix/VXQuery/etc builds and tests to the
> > testing jobs on Jenkins.
> >
> > The second problem is where we get into the trickiness of Maven releases
> > vs. Apache releases. This is why I asked about the actual requirements
> and
> > audience. My not-totally-thought-out suggestion for problem #2 would be
> to
> > not "solve" it at all, and simply state that the tip of Asterix requires
> > the latest tip of Hyracks to build. That's the way we all develop code on
> > our local machines anyway, as far as I know. If there are no outside
> > clients that we have to be concerned about between releases, doesn't this
> > solve the problem?
> >
> > Obviously when it comes time to make a real Hyracks (or Asterix) release
> > we'll need to do a little extra work to ensure those *released* codebases
> > build together. That might mean that we usually need to make Hyracks and
> > Asterix releases at the same time, and I don't know whether that's now
> > harder to achieve in the incubator world.
> >
> > (As a side note, the original proposal to merge the codebases would
> "solve"
> > [sweep under the rug] problem #1 for Asterix, at the cost of quite
> possibly
> > making it worse for VXQuery. It would sort of "solve" problem #2 for
> > Asterix as well, because it would physically enforce the same tip-tip
> rule
> > I'm proposing above. I still believe that we can solve both problems in
> > other strictly superior ways, however.)
> >
> > Ceej
> > aka Chris Hillery
> >
> > [*] - not actually easy.
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 6:39 AM, Mike Carey <dtabass@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > It feels to me (as one who is completely naive about much of this
> stuff)
> > > like we need two levels of "releases", one level for the outside world
> > (the
> > > public releases that users might pick up) and a different internal
> level
> > > for the development process (where we essentially want to have
> > > tagged/extra-tested checkpoints and want to be able to manage in a
> > careful
> > > way the cross-dependencies from/to other related development processes
> X
> > -
> > > e.g., for X = VXQuery, AsterixDB, and someday Pregelix).  When we do an
> > > official signed release of anything, we'd need to do one for the DAG of
> > > things - so there might be sync'ed "multireleases" (for Hyacks and then
> > for
> > > X).  Does that make any sense and/or give anyone more thoughts about
> how
> > we
> > > might achieve that...?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > MIke
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/8/15 2:08 AM, Chris Hillery wrote:
> > >
> > >> If not, it may be worth taking a step back and asking what exactly the
> > >> problem is. I understand the general rule that "we don't want Asterix
> to
> > >> be
> > >> broken", but what precisely does that mean? Is it acceptable that the
> > tip
> > >> of the Asterix source branch is only guaranteed to build against the
> tip
> > >> of
> > >> the Hyracks branch, for example? If not, why not? What audience are we
> > >> required to keep things working for at the source level, and what
> > >> expectations do they have?
> > >>
> > >> Ceej
> > >> aka Chris Hillery
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Chris Hillery <chillery@hillery.land>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>  So, if we pushed these not-releases to the Nexus repo running at UCI,
> > and
> > >>> devs pulled from there in preference to "official" repos, that would
> > >>> solve
> > >>> the problem?
> > >>>
> > >>> Ceej
> > >>> aka Chris Hillery
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 7:29 PM, Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>  If it is pushed to any wider audience than roughly the dev@ list,
> it
> > is
> > >>>> a release. That definitely includes maven central.  Artifacts in
> maven
> > >>>> are
> > >>>> convenience binaries and this not a release but they should be
> > >>>> traceable to
> > >>>> an exact source release.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  On Jun 7, 2015, at 19:10, Till Westmann <tillw@apache.org>
wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hmm, good point. It doesn’t have to. One question might be
if we
> can
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> push it to some maven repository, if it’s not an official release.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> But I think that should also be fine as long as we don’t
push it
> to a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> repository that claims to contain official releases.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Some mentor input might be helpful on this as well :)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Cheers,
> > >>>>> Till
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>  On Jun 7, 2015, at 6:53 PM, Ildar Absalyamov <
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> ildar.absalyamov@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Does version bump always mean full-fledged Apache release?
We need
> > the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> former just to resolve compile time dependencies.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Jun 7, 2015, at 18:49, Till Westmann <tillw@apache.org>
wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> In principle I agree with this, but creating a new
release will
> be
> > a
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> little more involved that just running maven, when we do
this at
> the
> > >>>> ASF.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> To publish a new release we will have to vet and vote on the
> release.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This takes at least 72 hours  in the best case if we’re
a TLP, the
> > >>>> first
> > >>>> release candidate is great, and have enough people to vote. While
> > we’re
> > >>>> still in the incubator, releasing will take a little longer as
we
> also
> > >>>> have
> > >>>> to get enough votes for the release in the incubator.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> As I proposed earlier, it would be really good to go through
the
> full
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> release process once, before we decide how to structure
our
> > processes
> > >>>> and
> > >>>> infrastructure.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Cheers,
> > >>>>>>> Till
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>  On Jun 4, 2015, at 6:37 PM, Ildar Absalyamov <
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ildar.absalyamov@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> I am with Chris on repository separation and I think that the
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> solution to the issue of Hyracks commits breaking Asterix
build
> is
> > >>>> using
> > >>>> release Hyracks versions instead of snapshot ones. Yes, that will
> > >>>> create a
> > >>>> frequent Hyracks releases (we will have to release it each time
> there
> > >>>> is a
> > >>>> change which spans both Hyracks & Asterix) and we have abandoned
> this
> > >>>> practice a while ago, but it seems that’s the only way to separate
> > >>>> projects
> > >>>> logically.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Here are few examples to clear the picture. In all examples
Hyracks
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> version is 4.5.6-Snapshot, Asterix version is 1.2.3-Snapshot
(but
> > it
> > >>>> depends on previous release version Hyracks 4.5.5):
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> 1) The changes span both Asterix & Hyracks.
> > >>>>>>>> First make sure that Asterix could depend on Hyracks
> > 4.5.6-Snapshot
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> without API conflicts & switch Asterix dependency
to
> > 4.5.6-Snapshot.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Submit Gerrit review, once it is done as a part of git-asf
script
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> commit changes, bump Hyracks version to 4.5.6, make
Asterix
> depend
> > >>>> on 4.5.6
> > >>>> and bump Hyracks to 4.5.7-Snapshot right after.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> 2) The changes are located only in Hyracks. Regular review
and
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> commit (with snapshot version) without any version
bump.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> 3) The changes are located only in Asterix. Regular review
and
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> commit (with snapshot version) without any version
bump.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> In this scenario Hyracks commit can never make Asterix build
fail
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> (since it depends on a stable release) and it’s the
> responsibility
> > >>>> of the
> > >>>> first person, whose commits spans both repos to make sure that
the
> > >>>> changes
> > >>>> in snapshot Hyracks version are properly merged.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Regarding the Yingyi’s issue with Gerrit topics: could we
modify
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> git-gerrit script so it would submit both Asterix &
Hyracks
> reviews
> > >>>> (granted that the latter is needed), and link them together, setting
> > the
> > >>>> proper topic? Gerrit seems to have API for changing that, right?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Jun 4, 2015, at 15:45, Mike Carey <dtabass@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Just a quick high-level note from our nearest
equivalent of the
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> pointy-haired Dilbert guy (aka me):  What would
be nice is to
> have
> > >>>> Hyracks
> > >>>> changes kick off tests of all "supported client projects" -
> AsterixDB,
> > >>>> VXQuery, maybe also Pregelix, IMRU, and possibly others in the
> future.
> > >>>> I
> > >>>> don't think we'll ever prevent such downstream things from being
> > broken
> > >>>> unless we run their tests - so I would suggest that we need a
> > mechanism
> > >>>> to
> > >>>> keep Hyracks changes from being permitted to happen without
> verifying
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> ongoing integrity of all "blessed" (priority 1) affected
> projects....
> > >>>> We
> > >>>> could have an agreed upon list of such projects and tests for
> each....
> > >>>> It
> > >>>> would be nice to have a "quick check" (hello world still works,
> basics
> > >>>> are
> > >>>> working) that was synchronously blocking of such changes, and at
> > least a
> > >>>> daily verification that all's totally well (AFAWK) for them all.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Not sure how this affects the still two-sided discussion...
 :-)
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> > >>>>>>>>> Mike
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>  On 6/2/15 10:00 AM, Chris Hillery wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:46 PM, Yingyi
Bu <
> buyingyi@gmail.com>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> In my opinion,  merging the repository doesn't break the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> separation of
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> hyracks and asterixdb, because the dependencies are controlled
by
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> mvn pom
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> files.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>  That wasn't the separation I was talking
about. I meant API
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> separation. As
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> it is now, when we make a change to both Asterix and Hyracks,
we
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> are forced
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> to consider the API implications, or at least they are put
out
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> there in a
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> very clear way that we need to look at. If we merge them, people
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> will
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> (rightly) treat the whole thing as one product, and there will
be
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> no brakes
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> on making wide-ranging API changes.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> (As an aside: I don't trust Maven's pom
files to do a good job
> > of
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> keeping
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> the dependency management clean. In fact I trust it to do
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> precisely the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> opposite, by making it both easier to screw up the dependencies
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> and harder
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> to update them in future.)
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Again, my point is this: If we truly believe
that Hyracks is a
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> re-usable
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> component, it should be treated as such from source to build
to
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> delivery.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> By merging in Asterix, we are saying that Asterix is "more
equal"
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> than
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> others Hyracks clients, to the point that we're tacitly willing
to
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> break
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> those other clients in favor of simplifying Asterix development.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> If that is
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> a fair and true statement, well, then, sure, let's merge them.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> 1) It forces those hyracks-only changes
to pass asterixdb
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> regression
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> tests.  Currently hyracks-only change are not verified by
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> asterixdb tests.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> This is a good point, I will admit. However, I think this same
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> goal can be
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> met in other ways. My strong preference would be to create
a set
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> of true
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> API tests inside of Hyracks, which both document and test the
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> external
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hyracks API. That will make API-breaking changes in future
much
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> easier to
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> spot, and also make it clear when Asterix is using internal
APIs
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> that it
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> should not.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>  2) On my local machine,  I don't need
to always install
> hyracks
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> and then
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> verify asterixdb from time to time.  Especially, switching
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> branches seems
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> painful because the installed hyracks snapshot is overwritten
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> from time to
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> time.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>  I haven't tried working on multiple
Hyracks branches at the
> > same
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> time, so I
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> haven't experienced this. This seems like a working method
error,
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> though.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> If you're working with two things that are "the same version"
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> (even if
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> that's a snapshot version), you'll need to use separate Maven
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> repositories
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> to install them. In fact, merging the two git repositories
would
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> do nothing
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> to fix this problem, will it? If the proposal is to put the
two
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> source
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> repositories in the same git repo but otherwise leave them
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> untouched, then
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> nothing would change in the build process. It's possible I'm
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> missing
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> something there, though.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>  3) I only need to make one code review
request and one
> jenkins
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> job.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Currently I need to manually change the topic of my asterixdb
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> gerrit CL
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> every time before I update my hyracks CL, and then manually
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> schedule
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> jenkins to run a new asterixdb job.  If I forget to schedule
the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> jenkins
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> job, the asterixdb CL is still shown to be "verified by jenkins".
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>  This is a problem, but it's a problem
in commit validation,
> > not
> > >>>>>>>>>> in
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> source. Modifying the source to work around these issues is
still
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> a bad
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> idea IMHO.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> The "change-topic" issue could be fixed
with a bit of
> > development
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> work
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> (have the topic point to a change, rather than a specific patchset
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> on the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> change, so you only need to set it once, for instance).
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> As for manually scheduling Asterix Jenkins
jobs, that sounds
> > like
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> it's only
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> a problem where your Hyracks change breaks an existing public
API.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> That
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> would be obviated by having true API testing inside of Hyracks,
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> which is
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> something that we should have regardless of any decisions about
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> source
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> locations.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> In summary / repeating myself again: yes,
we have some
> problems
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> because
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hyracks and Asterix are in seperate repositories. But those
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> problems are
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> pointing out true issues with our development and processes.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Merging the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> repositories isn't fixing those problems, it's sweeping them
under
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> the rug.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Long term we would be much better off to identify, isolate,
and
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> fix the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> problems themselves.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Ceej
> > >>>>>>>>>> aka Chris Hillery
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>  Best regards,
> > >>>>>>>> Ildar
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>  Best regards,
> > >>>>>> Ildar
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>
> > >
> >
>

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