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From: Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 05:49:40 +0100
Message-ID: 
 <CAJwFCa0JZigOzxGnW7z2sEA3=wUrH0rh7rYQ5MRHLpX4FVFtEg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: users and dev lists
To: dev@asterixdb.incubator.apache.org
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Actually, the Apache one is probably better since work addresses can
disappear.


On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 2:08 AM, Ian Maxon <imaxon@uci.edu> wrote:

> Ah I see, sorry! The UCI one is probably best, then.
>
> - Ian
>
> On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 5:50 PM, Till Westmann <tillw@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > No for the moderation e-mails :)
> > Which address do you use for the mailing lists?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Till
> >
> > On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Ian Maxon <imaxon@uci.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Oh, on the commit logs? Unfortunately in Gerrit it takes the committe=
r
> > from
> > > the account's email address, I believe...
> > >
> > > - Ian
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Till Westmann <tillw@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > > Do you want to use use the UCI or the Apache e-mail address?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Ian Maxon <imaxon@uci.edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If I'm not already a moderator I'd be happy to volunteer...
> > > > >
> > > > > - Ian
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:09 PM, Till Westmann <tillw@apache.org=
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > We currently have 7 moderators, so I think that we can just tak=
e
> > you
> > > > out
> > > > > > (I guess that requires and infra-request, is that right?).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the other hand I would be more than happy if we found anothe=
r
> > > > > volunteer
> > > > > > moderator!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Till
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On May 11, 2015, at 11:05 PM, Jochen Wiedmann <
> > > > > jochen.wiedmann@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'd welcome to have another volunteer to replace me as a
> > moderator.
> > > > > > > (As this would be my 9th or 10th list to moderate.) As Till
> > wrote,
> > > > > > > list moderation isn't much of a burden. OTOH, it accumulates.=
..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jochen
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 7:57 AM, Till Westmann <
> tillw@apache.org
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> Just found a link to the self-subscribe app [1] for committe=
rs
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > mailing lists page [2].
> > > > > > >> The mailing lists for podlings are at the end of the (long!)
> > > > dropdown.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Cheers,
> > > > > > >> Till
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/committers/subscribe <
> > > > > > https://whimsy.apache.org/committers/subscribe>
> > > > > > >> [2] http://apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html <
> > > > > > http://apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>> On May 11, 2015, at 10:07 PM, Till Westmann <
> tillw@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> I=E2=80=99ve also added this list to our incubation status =
page [1].
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> @Ian, could you add the new list to the readme when you
> update
> > it
> > > > > > again?
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Cheers,
> > > > > > >>> Till
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/projects/asterixdb.html <
> > > > > > http://incubator.apache.org/projects/asterixdb.html>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> On May 11, 2015, at 9:45 PM, Till Westmann <
> tillw@apache.org
> > > > > <mailto:
> > > > > > tillw@apache.org>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> users@asterixdb.incubator.apache.org <mailto:
> > > > > > users@asterixdb.incubator.apache.org> is available now.
> > > > > > >>>> Please subscribe to it, so that we can close the old list
> > down.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Cheers,
> > > > > > >>>> Till
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> On May 9, 2015, at 9:14 AM, Till Westmann <
> tillw@apache.org
> > > > > <mailto:
> > > > > > tillw@apache.org>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> I=E2=80=99ve requested a users mailing list using the req=
uest form
> at
> > > > [1].
> > > > > > >>>>> The listed moderators are our mentors and 2 volunteers
> (Mike
> > > and
> > > > > I).
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Cheers,
> > > > > > >>>>> Till
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> [1] https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq/incubator <
> > > > > > https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq/incubator>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> On May 3, 2015, at 11:41 PM, Mike Carey <
> dtabass@gmail.com
> > > > > <mailto:
> > > > > > dtabass@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Cool!
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> On 5/3/15 5:08 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>> the way that moderation works at Apache is that
> moderators
> > > see
> > > > > > candidate
> > > > > > >>>>>>> messages in email with links to accept or reject.  Repl=
y
> > with
> > > > no
> > > > > > >>>>>>> modifications works to accept the message.  Reply-all
> > accepts
> > > > the
> > > > > > message
> > > > > > >>>>>>> and whitelists the sender.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> If no moderator takes action for several days, the
> message
> > is
> > > > > > deleted.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Super simple and fast.  The only obscure part is the th=
e
> > > > > reply-all
> > > > > > trick.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 10:44 PM, Mike Carey <
> > > dtabass@gmail.com
> > > > > > <mailto:dtabass@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I could do it as well.  (Does it just entail saying
> "this
> > > note
> > > > > > may indeed
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> pass" to a queue of msgs - a queue we'd all be trying =
to
> > > > watch?)
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Cheers,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Mike
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> On 5/3/15 1:11 PM, Till Westmann wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> I agree with your feeling. If we decide to do it that
> > way,
> > > > I=E2=80=99m
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> volunteering to be another moderator.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Are there other volunteers?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On May 3, 2015, at 10:29 AM, Ted Dunning <
> > > > > ted.dunning@gmail.com
> > > > > > <mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> My feeling is it doesn't hurt to have more moderator=
s
> > > rather
> > > > > > than fewer.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Judicious white-listing allows the amount of
> moderation
> > > > > traffic
> > > > > > to be
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> driven to very low levels so the load on the
> moderators
> > is
> > > > > > very, very
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> low.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> The cost of losing a moderator without quite knowing
> it
> > it
> > > > > > higher, I
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> think,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> than the load on a number of moderators.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 6:17 PM, Till Westmann <
> > > > > tillw@apache.org
> > > > > > <mailto:tillw@apache.org>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Well, the JIRA was not the right way to request this=
.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> But before we do it the right way, we need a few
> > > moderators
> > > > > > for the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> list.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I assume that the mentors are the moderators for th=
e
> > > other
> > > > > > lists.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Is that the way it should be or should other PPMC
> > members
> > > > > > moderate as
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> well?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Till
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2015, at 18:30, Till Westmann <
> > > tillw@apache.org
> > > > > > <mailto:tillw@apache.org>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Here=E2=80=99s the JIRA:
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-9580 <
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-9580>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Till
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2015, at 5:39 PM, Till Westmann <
> > > > tillw@apache.org
> > > > > > <mailto:tillw@apache.org>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, since nobody objected, I=E2=80=99ll ask for t=
he users
> > list.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Till
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2015, at 12:16 AM, Till Westmann <
> > > > > > tillw@apache.org <mailto:tillw@apache.org>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since this is just a procedural decision that ha=
s
> no
> > > > > impact
> > > > > > outside
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the AsterixDB podling, I think that the PPMC
> members
> > > > > > (mentors +
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> initial
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> committer) are those who get to decide.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> And as this is probably not a highly contested
> issue,
> > we
> > > > > > could take
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> this decision by lazy consensus [1], i.e. your
> > proposal
> > > > is
> > > > > > accepted,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> if
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> nobody objects within 72 hours.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Till
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.htm=
l
> <
> > > > > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 08:09, Mike Carey <
> > > > dtabass@gmail.com
> > > > > > <mailto:dtabass@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Given the discussions, I'd like to propose now
> that
> > > we
> > > > > > close in on a
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "two lists - dev and user" - answer to this one.=
 I
> > > > realize
> > > > > > there are
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> tradeoffs, but because we do have some users alread=
y
> > who
> > > > are
> > > > > > decidedly
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> non-developer types - and more coming - I'd like to
> > have
> > > a
> > > > > > list "for
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> them"
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> that encourages them to be on it (by its topics and
> > > > volume).
> > > > > > Is there a
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> way we can/should bring this to a vote/decision by
> > those
> > > > that
> > > > > > get to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> decide?  (This will be our first case-study in a
> > > > > > post-joining-incubation
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> decision. :-))
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/24/15 5:46 AM, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Till Westman=
n
> <
> > > > > > tillw@apache.org <mailto:tillw@apache.org>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I=E2=80=99m not completely sure that I want one. W=
e
> currently
> > > have
> > > > > > one and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it has some reasonable traffic and the
> discussions
> > > are
> > > > > at
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> user-level.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Also all developers are subscribed to the user-lis=
t,
> > so
> > > > > > developers
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are aware of user problems but not necessarily
> the
> > > > other
> > > > > > way
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> around.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I think that works pretty well, but maybe a single
> > list
> > > > > would
> > > > > > work
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts from the other AsterixDB developers?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about automatically generated
> notifications,
> > > like
> > > > > > Jira issues,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commit messages, etc.?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't recommend to push those to a user
> list?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jochen
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Any world that can produce the Taj Mahal, William Shakespeare=
,
> > > > > > > and Stripe toothpaste can't be all bad. (C.R. MacNamara, One
> Two
> > > > Three)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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