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From Russell Nelson <>
Subject RE: termination with unrelated trigger considered harmful
Date Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:22:52 GMT
Peterson, Scott K (HP Legal) writes:
 > Because the trigger of this termination is unrelated to the 
 > software being licensed, (in contrast to the second sentence 
 > of section 5) there is no good way to manage that termination 
 > risk.

That's not a "risk", that's a decision.  You don't have to use open
source software if you don't want.  If you decide to give up that
benefit, then you also have to give up the benefit of enforcing your
patents against open source developers.

That said, I agree with you that the term is badly worded and needs to
be changed.  It should say "any patent OR COPYRIGHT licenses".

The whole point of this term is to carve out a space whereby Apache
developers can write software without fear that they will be sued for
patent infringement.  Large companies like HP, IBM, and others,
who have a large patent portfolio, can use cross-licensing to protect
themselves from patent infringement threats.  Open source developers
typically don't file for patents -- their only resource is their

You would have HP deny its resources (patents) to people who
threaten it.  Why do you say that the ASF should NOT deny its
resources (software) to people who threaten it?

In other thread, Brian points out that this creates a potential
quandry for a patent-holding Apache user.  If somebody wants to cause
them trouble, he can infringe their patent and contribute that code to
Apache.  I don't think that's the problem Brian thinks it is.  First,
they're an Apache user, so using that code helps them too.  Second,
they can implement a work-around and contribute it to Apache.  Third,
they can still enforce their patent against anybody who's using that
software outside of Apache.

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