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From Greg Stein <gst...@lyra.org>
Subject Re: SMS stuff
Date Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:16:57 GMT
On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 11:09:42AM +0200, Sander Striker wrote:
> > I am well beyond 100% in support of the sms schema.  The only 
> > question is what is which, do we wrap the pool schema in sms,
> > or do 'pools' become sms?
> 
> I'll try and write up a comparison between the apis in the weekend,
> together with how it could be handled _if_ pools are replaced with
> sms. If after that people are still not convinced *), I'm starting
> to think 'we've tried. no deal. move on.'.

A short description/comparison may help.

However, I believe that no matter what you may end up describing, the only
thing that people will be comfortable with is an absolute retention of
apr_pool_t and SMS growing silently underneath that API. Certain
applications may choose to use SMS directly (fine!). At the end point,
apr_pool_t will be a slim cover, and we can choose what to do at that point.

> > Greg's argument (and I'm leaning that way) says 'pools are now 
> > widely deployed'.
> 
> I tend to disagree on that. It is 'only' deployed in httpd and
> subversion. [not counting apr and apr-util]. If we want to change
> things like this, now (read this as _after_ the release of
> httpd-2.0) is the time.

Um. Hello? Have you counted the number of third party modules in existence?
Tossing the pools means tossing the basic framework for a couple hundred
modules. apr_pool_t and apr_p* will remain (effectively) forever.

It is entirely reasonable to assume that apr_pool_t could be a different
name for a particular type of apr_sms_t, but there is no effective way to
eliminate apr_pool_t and its associated functions.

> > Grow a pool into an sms, don't break anyone's code along the way 
> > (by making the default sms our beloved pool schema) and we are in
> > strong shape.
> 
> There is a way to do everything _without_ breaking code along the way.
> I'll include that in the thingy I had planned for the weekend.

Right. I can see this, and it follows what some of us have been saying: grow
the SMS stuff *under* the pool abstraction. Keep pools as the top-level API.

> *) convinced is not the right word here. I'm more looking for open
>    to change, but that is also not what I'm trying to say. Damn,
>    it is hard to express yourself sometimes when you kind find the
>    words... :-)

Don't worry about it. We're all convinced of particular things. But we are
all, also open to change. If we were obstinate mother fuckers, then we would
never have received commit privileges. (that is the hope, at least :-)

Open Source is not conducive to stubborn attitudes. People who are
inflexible tend to be weeded out. But being flexible doesn't mean we have to
/not/ have strong opinions at any point in time.

Cheers,
-g

-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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