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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 14:47:18 -0800
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Subject: Re: Word Count Tutorial Failure
From: Chandni Singh <chandni@datatorrent.com>
To: dev@apex.incubator.apache.org
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Sandesh,

I am not just referring to myself. I have worked with people who are not
committers and it doesn't take longer than 5 minutes.

Chandni

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Sandesh Hegde <sandesh@datatorrent.com>
wrote:

> It doesn't matter how long the Apex committers takes to create "Your firs=
t
> application", If people outside this circle are taking more time then we
> need to examine our guides.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 2:36 PM Chandni Singh <chandni@datatorrent.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Starting a project or creating a new executable project should honestly
> > take no longer than 5 minutes.
> >
> > This literally doesn't take more than 5 minutes as the way Ram has
> > described in
> > https://www.datatorrent.com/buildingapps under "Your first application"
> > section.
> >
> > Chandni
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Ganelin, Ilya <
> > Ilya.Ganelin@capitalone.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Ram -
> > > I=C2=B9ve reviewed the Apex_Development_Setup page and the blog. I am=
 not
> new
> > > to Apex, I=C2=B9ve built apps in Apex and understand the process but =
putting
> > > myself in as a newcomer to the project, given the existing
> documentation,
> > > it=C2=B9s still really confusing to get started. We=C2=B9re presently=
 teaching
> > > others within C1 how to get Apex up and rolling and getting going fro=
m
> > > ground zero is far from easy.
> > >
> > > As a developer, the things that I need to be crystal clear and concis=
e
> > are:
> > >
> > > 1) How do I get the codebase
> > > 2) How do I import the codebase into an IDE
> > > 3) How do I build and run examples
> > > 4) How do I create a new project, what do I need to add to maven to d=
o
> > this
> > > 5) How do I build
> > > 6) How do I test
> > >
> > > At the moment, the documentation doesn=C2=B9t paint a clear picture o=
f this.
> > > The present version is a massive improvement over what was there
> before,
> > > but at the moment there aren=C2=B9t a few clear steps, with minimal
> > > configuration and involvement that get a person rolling.
> > >
> > > Starting a project or creating a new executable project should honest=
ly
> > > take no longer than 5 minutes.
> > >
> > > With regards to the top N tutorial, if it=C2=B9s too complicated to e=
asily
> set
> > > up, let=C2=B9s have tutorials that aren=C2=B9t! A tutorial should ill=
ustrate
> basic
> > > concepts and be easy to get up and running, otherwise it=C2=B9s
> disheartening.
> > >
> > > Does this help clarify a little more?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/19/15, 11:47 AM, "Munagala Ramanath" <ram@datatorrent.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Ilya,
> > > >
> > > >Completely agree about starting from scratch. My suggestion to clone
> > > >the examples repo which
> > > >contains the entire TopNWords example project was in response to you=
r
> > > >suggestion in item 5 of
> > > >your message.
> > > >
> > > >For a simpler "Hello World" project, the steps at
> > > >https://docs.datatorrent.com/apex_development_setup/
> > > >should work -- it involves running a just a couple of commands on th=
e
> > > >comand line and, for those wanting
> > > >an even simpler process, a script is provided that automates things
> > > >even further.
> > > >
> > > >A similarly super-simple approach to gettting started is outlined in
> > > >my blog: https://www.datatorrent.com/buildingapps/
> > > >People can directly run many of the existing demos after building co=
re
> > > >and malhar and then
> > > >experiment with modifying the sources of those demos.
> > > >
> > > >For a more substantial example like Top N Words, there is a fair bit
> > > >of code needed in multiple files;
> > > >the process outlined in the tutorial on the website is simply trying
> > > >to save some time by copying
> > > >existing files over from Malhar and making the minimal changes neede=
d
> > > >to incorporate them into
> > > >a standalone project.
> > > >
> > > >For someone wanting to get involved with Apex, I think it is
> > > >imperative to get familiar with running tools like
> > > >git and maven from the command line, so the tutorials rely on those
> > tools.
> > > >
> > > >Please let me know if you run into problems with any of the above
> steps.
> > > >
> > > >Ram
> > > >
> > > >On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Ganelin, Ilya
> > > ><Ilya.Ganelin@capitalone.com> wrote:
> > > >> Ram - the use case I'm targeting is having someone create a new
> > project
> > > >>from scratch based on an example. This is a little bit different.
> This
> > > >>is why I was basing it on the documentation from the website.
> > > >>
> > > >> The above is a necessity for getting new members involved with the
> > > >>project.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Thank you,
> > > >> Ilya Ganelin
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Munagala Ramanath
> > > >>[ram@datatorrent.com<mailto:ram@datatorrent.com>]
> > > >> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 01:50 PM Eastern Standard Time
> > > >> To: dev@apex.incubator.apache.org
> > > >> Subject: Re: Word Count Tutorial Failure
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Ilya,
> > > >>
> > > >> Could you please clone: https://github.com/DataTorrent/examples
> > > >> You'll find the complete project in tutorials/topnwords/app
> > > >> You should be able to build it successfully with: mvn clean packag=
e
> > > >>-DskipTests
> > > >> I just tried it. Let me know if you run into any issues.
> > > >>
> > > >> Ram
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Ganelin, Ilya
> > > >> <Ilya.Ganelin@capitalone.com> wrote:
> > > >>> Hi all =C2=AD I just attempted to follow the instructions here:
> > > >>> http://docs.datatorrent.com/tutorials/topnwords-c2/
> > > >>>
> > > >>> For standing up top N words in Java.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> As it stands, things did not work. I was using IntelliJ Idea 14.
> > There
> > > >>>were a number of issues, a short (not comprehensive) list is below=
.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  1.  There are discrepancies between the selected language level =
in
> > > >>>the project settings and certain constructs in the code
> > > >>>     *   In WordReader.java diamonds are used, which are only
> > supported
> > > >>>in java 7 but the language level is set to 5
> > > >>>  2.  The apex version is out of date in the pom.xml file (it=C2=
=B9s set
> to
> > > >>>2.2)
> > > >>>  3.  ApplicationWithQuerySupport.java does not compile with newer
> > > >>>versions of Apex
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I spent about 15 minutes trying to get this thing to work in its
> > > >>>present state and it simply was not an easy and ready to roll
> example.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> General thoughts:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  1.  We should not be asking users to manually copy example files
> > from
> > > >>>one place to another
> > > >>>  2.  We should not be asking them to rename packages to get thing=
s
> to
> > > >>>work
> > > >>>  3.  We should not be asking them to modify existing example code
> to
> > > >>>construct another example.
> > > >>>     *   I think a better approach is to provide a complete exampl=
e
> > > >>>(that works out of the box) and that we can then walk through line
> by
> > > >>>line to explain what it=C2=B9s doing.
> > > >>>  4.  We shouldn=C2=B9t be asking them to copy-paste in settings.
> Instead,
> > > >>>we should walk them through what it means to set settings and have=
 a
> > > >>>simple enough example that it=C2=B9s straightforward to configure.
> > > >>>  5.  Standing up a word count example should be a 1-button-click
> > > >>>deployment that is ready to run without any user input. Any furthe=
r
> > > >>>configuration should only be necessary for the sake of teaching, n=
ot
> > > >>>for the sake of operationalizing the project.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I hope this helps, I=C2=B9m happy to offer further feedback. Than=
ks!
> > > >>> ________________________________________________________
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or
> > > >>>proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be
> used
> > > >>>solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The
> > > >>>information transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the
> > > >>>individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of th=
is
> > > >>>message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha=
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is
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> > > >> ________________________________________________________
> > > >>
> > > >> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or
> > > >>proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be us=
ed
> > > >>solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The
> > > >>information transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the
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s
> > > >>message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
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> > >
> > > The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or
> > > proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used
> > > solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The
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> > > transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the individual or
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