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From Hans Schwaebli <hans_schwae...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Python implementation for Ant
Date Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:32:33 GMT
A side effect of the make files is its platform dependence. And there had been other problems
I read, like a space character causing a bug and you needed lot of time to find these bugs.
Concerning bugs I can tell my own story with the way Ant files are written. If a variable
is not set, a compiler of a scripting language would complain at compile time, wheareas with
Ant's XML files these bugs only show up at runtime. Just one example. I surely have hundreds
of reasons inventing a alternative to Ant like the inventor of Ant started developing it after
so many bugs because of a missing space or something like this.


"Scot P. Floess" <floess@mindspring.com> wrote: Peter:

That's a good point regarding Makefiles (I was simply thinking of scripting)...  There was
a time  "loved" writing Makefiles...uhm...not anymore ;)

Regardless...I still think XML as a markup is more than tolerable...I don't see the issues
with it at all.  I mean, I like Java but I don't think I'd want to write scripts using it...
 Just my personal preference...but still...  I suppose one could have made the same argument
against Makefiles and SH (or BASH)...

Scot

-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Reilly 

>Sent: Feb 8, 2007 1:47 PM
>To: Ant Users List 
>Subject: Re: Python implementation for Ant
>
>On 2/8/07, Matt Benson  wrote:
>> Here's a link to Terence Parr's "Humans should not
>> have to grok XML" article:
>>
>> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-sbxml.html
>>
>> In it he explains the distinction between XML as a
>> data representation format, the use for which it was
>> AFAIK intended,
>This is one viewpoint.
>HTML is from the same source and it is for
>human consumption.
>XML is actually easier that HTML as it is less forgiving
>with regard to mistakes.
>> vs. as an explicit interface for human
>> consumption.  Regardless of your own position, I found
>> it an interesting read.  Terence is an example of a
>> noted personality in the OSS community who develops in
>> Java but has never touched Ant precisely _because_ of
>> its XML interface.
>Mmm,
>I spend ~15 years fighting cryptic make files - sometimes
>I wrote perl scripts to help - it was not a pleasant experience.
>I never really understood the M4 / configure / autoconf stuff.
>
>I found ant build files to be simple to understand and to
>use for java projects (once one realized that the commands/tasks
>are directory based).
>
>Peter
>
>
>> So such developers definitely
>> exist, thought it's quite possible he is the only one
>> whose aversion to human-targeted XML is a strong
>> enough deterrent in and of itself.  ;)
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> --- "Scot P. Floess"  wrote:
>>
>> > I'd have to agree with Rob...  Have you ever looked
>> > at Voice XML?  It took is scripting but using XML as
>> > the "markup" language....
>> >
>> > What is your aversion to XML with regards to it as a
>> > scripting language?  I personally like it...
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >From: "Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)"
>> > 
>> > >Sent: Feb 8, 2007 12:58 PM
>> > >To: Ant Users List 
>> > >Subject: RE: Python implementation for Ant
>> > >
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: Hans Schwaebli
>> > [mailto:hans_schwaebli@yahoo.com]
>> > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 3:01 AM
>> > >> To: Ant Users List
>> > >> Subject: Python implementation for Ant
>> > >>
>> > >> What do you think about the XML format used for
>> > writing Ant
>> > >> scripts? I don't like it.
>> > >>
>> > >>   What about writing Ant scripts in a script
>> > language like
>> > >> Python or Jython instead of writing them in XML?
>> > I think it
>> > >> would be much more productive.
>> > >>
>> > >>   There seems to be a private project for this,
>> > but it is not
>> > >> official, not from Apache.
>> > >
>> > >I have no issues with XML. It seems to work well
>> > for me. It is easy to
>> > >read, understand, and maintain build files in XML
>> > format. I have no
>> > >desire to change the way I am currently writing
>> > build files.
>> > >
>> > >-Rob Anderson
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > Scot P. Floess
>> > 27 Lake Royale
>> > Louisburg, NC  27549
>> >
>> > (252) 478-8087 (Home)
>> > (919) 754-4592 (Work)
>> >
>> > Chief Architect JPlate
>> > http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate
>> > Chief Architect JavaPIM
>> > http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim
>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Scot P. Floess
27 Lake Royale
Louisburg, NC  27549

(252) 478-8087 (Home)
(919) 754-4592 (Work)

Chief Architect JPlate       http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate
Chief Architect JavaPIM    http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim

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