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From "Scot P. Floess" <flo...@mindspring.com>
Subject RE: Python implementation for Ant
Date Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:56:21 GMT
Hans:

I see your point but disagree...  Ant comes with a handy <import> tag - thus allowing
reuse.  I spent the good part of last year off and on working on a completely reusable build
environment...basically after finding myself grabbing my build files and hacking away on them
for each project (sloppy on my part I admit).  Now I have a fairly robust environment I can
import and reuse...and with some carefully labelled properties that my targets use...well
it makes it even simpler.

I still think the XML markup is perfectly fine and not kludgy...  As far as regular expressions...well
arguably one could look at XPath - the epressions are in the attributes...  Pretty slick honestly
:)

Scot

-----Original Message-----
>From: Hans Schwaebli <hans_schwaebli@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Feb 8, 2007 4:13 PM
>To: Ant Users List <user@ant.apache.org>
>Subject: RE: Python implementation for Ant
>
>Interesting article. I bookmarked it and will read it later.
>
>Two years ago I had to use Ant a lot for building our application. This is much complexer
than just copying and compiling.
>
>I started to discuss the uglyness of XML for Ant in the Sun Java forum. Nonetheless I
used Ant without much hatred. But I didn't change my mind on XML for that purpose.
>
>Maybe if you have very simple build scripts and you are easy to satisfy, then Ant's XML
won't hurt much. But if the scripts are complex and thus can't hide its scripting nature,
then you pay with bugs and its consequences, of which many would have been avoided by a scripting
language.
>
>
>Matt Benson <gudnabrsam@yahoo.com> wrote: Here's a link to Terence Parr's "Humans
should not
>have to grok XML" article:
>
>http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-sbxml.html
>
>In it he explains the distinction between XML as a
>data representation format, the use for which it was
>AFAIK intended, vs. as an explicit interface for human
>consumption.  Regardless of your own position, I found
>it an interesting read.  Terence is an example of a
>noted personality in the OSS community who develops in
>Java but has never touched Ant precisely _because_ of
>its XML interface.  So such developers definitely
>exist, thought it's quite possible he is the only one
>whose aversion to human-targeted XML is a strong
>enough deterrent in and of itself.  ;)
>
>-Matt
>
>--- "Scot P. Floess"  wrote:
>
>> I'd have to agree with Rob...  Have you ever looked
>> at Voice XML?  It took is scripting but using XML as
>> the "markup" language....
>> 
>> What is your aversion to XML with regards to it as a
>> scripting language?  I personally like it...
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: "Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)"
>> 
>> >Sent: Feb 8, 2007 12:58 PM
>> >To: Ant Users List 
>> >Subject: RE: Python implementation for Ant
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Hans Schwaebli
>> [mailto:hans_schwaebli@yahoo.com] 
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 3:01 AM
>> >> To: Ant Users List
>> >> Subject: Python implementation for Ant
>> >> 
>> >> What do you think about the XML format used for
>> writing Ant 
>> >> scripts? I don't like it.
>> >>    
>> >>   What about writing Ant scripts in a script
>> language like 
>> >> Python or Jython instead of writing them in XML?
>> I think it 
>> >> would be much more productive.
>> >>    
>> >>   There seems to be a private project for this,
>> but it is not 
>> >> official, not from Apache.
>> >
>> >I have no issues with XML. It seems to work well
>> for me. It is easy to
>> >read, understand, and maintain build files in XML
>> format. I have no
>> >desire to change the way I am currently writing
>> build files.
>> >
>> >-Rob Anderson
>> >
>> >
>>
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>> 
>> 
>> Scot P. Floess
>> 27 Lake Royale
>> Louisburg, NC  27549
>> 
>> (252) 478-8087 (Home)
>> (919) 754-4592 (Work)
>> 
>> Chief Architect JPlate      
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate
>> Chief Architect JavaPIM   
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim
>> 
>>
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>
>
>
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Scot P. Floess
27 Lake Royale
Louisburg, NC  27549

(252) 478-8087 (Home)
(919) 754-4592 (Work)

Chief Architect JPlate       http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate
Chief Architect JavaPIM    http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim

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