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From James Abley <james.ab...@volantis.com>
Subject Re: Python implementation for Ant
Date Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:37:26 GMT
I only have limited scripting language experience (Python, Perl, Ruby 
and Groovy) but normally a variable not being set would show up at 
runtime, rather than compile time? Discuss.

;-)

Hans Schwaebli wrote:
> A side effect of the make files is its platform dependence. And there had been other
problems I read, like a space character causing a bug and you needed lot of time to find these
bugs. Concerning bugs I can tell my own story with the way Ant files are written. If a variable
is not set, a compiler of a scripting language would complain at compile time, wheareas with
Ant's XML files these bugs only show up at runtime. Just one example. I surely have hundreds
of reasons inventing a alternative to Ant like the inventor of Ant started developing it after
so many bugs because of a missing space or something like this.
> 
> 
> "Scot P. Floess" <floess@mindspring.com> wrote: Peter:
> 
> That's a good point regarding Makefiles (I was simply thinking of scripting)...  There
was a time  "loved" writing Makefiles...uhm...not anymore ;)
> 
> Regardless...I still think XML as a markup is more than tolerable...I don't see the issues
with it at all.  I mean, I like Java but I don't think I'd want to write scripts using it...
 Just my personal preference...but still...  I suppose one could have made the same argument
against Makefiles and SH (or BASH)...
> 
> Scot
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter Reilly 
> 
>> Sent: Feb 8, 2007 1:47 PM
>> To: Ant Users List 
>> Subject: Re: Python implementation for Ant
>>
>> On 2/8/07, Matt Benson  wrote:
>>> Here's a link to Terence Parr's "Humans should not
>>> have to grok XML" article:
>>>
>>> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-sbxml.html
>>>
>>> In it he explains the distinction between XML as a
>>> data representation format, the use for which it was
>>> AFAIK intended,
>> This is one viewpoint.
>> HTML is from the same source and it is for
>> human consumption.
>> XML is actually easier that HTML as it is less forgiving
>> with regard to mistakes.
>>> vs. as an explicit interface for human
>>> consumption.  Regardless of your own position, I found
>>> it an interesting read.  Terence is an example of a
>>> noted personality in the OSS community who develops in
>>> Java but has never touched Ant precisely _because_ of
>>> its XML interface.
>> Mmm,
>> I spend ~15 years fighting cryptic make files - sometimes
>> I wrote perl scripts to help - it was not a pleasant experience.
>> I never really understood the M4 / configure / autoconf stuff.
>>
>> I found ant build files to be simple to understand and to
>> use for java projects (once one realized that the commands/tasks
>> are directory based).
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>> So such developers definitely
>>> exist, thought it's quite possible he is the only one
>>> whose aversion to human-targeted XML is a strong
>>> enough deterrent in and of itself.  ;)
>>>
>>> -Matt
>>>
>>> --- "Scot P. Floess"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd have to agree with Rob...  Have you ever looked
>>>> at Voice XML?  It took is scripting but using XML as
>>>> the "markup" language....
>>>>
>>>> What is your aversion to XML with regards to it as a
>>>> scripting language?  I personally like it...
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: "Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)"
>>>>> Sent: Feb 8, 2007 12:58 PM
>>>>> To: Ant Users List 
>>>>> Subject: RE: Python implementation for Ant
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Hans Schwaebli
>>>> [mailto:hans_schwaebli@yahoo.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 3:01 AM
>>>>>> To: Ant Users List
>>>>>> Subject: Python implementation for Ant
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think about the XML format used for
>>>> writing Ant
>>>>>> scripts? I don't like it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   What about writing Ant scripts in a script
>>>> language like
>>>>>> Python or Jython instead of writing them in XML?
>>>> I think it
>>>>>> would be much more productive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   There seems to be a private project for this,
>>>> but it is not
>>>>>> official, not from Apache.
>>>>> I have no issues with XML. It seems to work well
>>>> for me. It is easy to
>>>>> read, understand, and maintain build files in XML
>>>> format. I have no
>>>>> desire to change the way I am currently writing
>>>> build files.
>>>>> -Rob Anderson
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
>>>> Scot P. Floess
>>>> 27 Lake Royale
>>>> Louisburg, NC  27549
>>>>
>>>> (252) 478-8087 (Home)
>>>> (919) 754-4592 (Work)
>>>>
>>>> Chief Architect JPlate
>>>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate
>>>> Chief Architect JavaPIM
>>>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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> 
> 
> Scot P. Floess
> 27 Lake Royale
> Louisburg, NC  27549
> 
> (252) 478-8087 (Home)
> (919) 754-4592 (Work)
> 
> Chief Architect JPlate       http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate
> Chief Architect JavaPIM    http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim
> 
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
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