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From "Chappell, Simon P" <>
Subject RE: New Ant GUI - 'Ant's Nest'
Date Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:40:43 GMT
Luxury! We're the reason that they had to invent CMM level zero! You have it easy! :-)

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Erik Hatcher []
>Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:47 PM
>To: Ant Users List
>Subject: Re: New Ant GUI - 'Ant's Nest'
>On Jan 7, 2005, at 12:20 PM, Chris Clohosy wrote:
>> Erik, I'm sorry as it seems I've offended you. No excuses, 
>it appears 
>> I haven't dug as deep into Ant as I could have. I promise not to be 
>> disheartened by your comments (too many students give up after 
>> criticism) but to instead look into the resources you 
>mentioned; when 
>> I'm not revising for my exams.
>I apologize for coming across as offended.  The bulk of my frustration 
>comes from my recent personal experiences of dealing with 
>developers at 
>the University that I discoverd are not using version control, 
>have not 
>read the book on the framework they are stumbling with and do not read 
>partake in the e-mail lists, and also seeing various groups here work 
>in isolation without communicating between themselves.
>Please take the frustration out of my comments and distill the 
>constructive parts of it, as you mentioned.
>	Erik
>> Chris
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Hatcher" 
>> <>
>> To: "Ant Users List" <>
>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: New Ant GUI - 'Ant's Nest'
>>> On Jan 7, 2005, at 10:31 AM, Chris Clohosy wrote:
>>>> Thank you Rich, Erik, and Dominique for your comments, I'll 
>>>> certainly look into them. When I first started looking into this 
>>>> around May-time, I could not find any easy way of extracting the 
>>>> information needed from the Ant class files. I tried everything, 
>>>> from reflection to the Ant API itself and could not find anything. 
>>>> The best I could do was to look for the bean conventions like 
>>>> getters and setters but I didn't want to rely on that. Alos there 
>>>> was no way of knowing if an attribute was required, or if 
>it became 
>>>> required if another attribute was set, etc. That's way I 
>was heading 
>>>> down the meta-data route with annotations, I didn't have a 
>clue they 
>>>> were already marked up with @tags!
>>>> This is a university project, and at the moment time is 
>running out 
>>>> so I have to prioritise what has to be included in the final 
>>>> version, so bear with me :-p But you all have definetely shed some 
>>>> light on what lies behind Ant, and I'm very grateful.'
>>> *sigh* - I work at a University myself, and it saddens me 
>to see how 
>>> many projects are done in isolation without communication with 
>>> others.  Ant's source code has had these tags in them, readily 
>>> apparent.  If you check Ant out from CVS (surely you did this, no?) 
>>> you'd see a proposal/xdocs directory where a pretty sophisticated 
>>> XDoclet-based generator exists to pull the metadata tags and 
>>> integrate with IntrospectionHelper.
>>> This issue has been discussed on this e-mail list and the dev one a 
>>> fair bit.  These archives are searchable.
>>> So, you did not try "everything", as that would have 
>included looking 
>>> at the source code in depth and asking around on these 
>lists.  Sorry 
>>> for giving you a hard time, but it is frustrating to see wheels 
>>> reinvented due to lack of knowledge.  Wheels reinvented for 
>>> creative and better is a different story.
>>> What else could we have done to make the knowledge of what already 
>>> exists more apparent and easy for you to have found?
>>> And like a lot of University projects, they get abandoned just when 
>>> things start to get interesting.  What will happen with 
>your project 
>>> when it reaches the "final version"?  Will you continue to work on 
>>> it?
>>> Erik
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