ant-user mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From "Erskine, Chris" <chris.ersk...@eds.com>
Subject RE: winning the case for ANT
Date Wed, 20 Oct 2004 01:44:20 GMT
If I have a script for a play and I read (execute) first Act 2, Scene 3 and
then execute Act 1, Scene 2, is this not a set of targets and are they not
executed in a different order.  Does this script not do the same as the ant
build script.  Within a target, I have instructions to be performed (your
rules).  These instructions are processed based upon the tasks that they are
dispatched to. 

>From Britannica.com "in motion pictures, the written text of a film. The
nature of scripts varies from those that give only a brief outline of the
action to detailed shooting scripts, in which every action, gesture, and
implication is explicitly stated."  Is that not what I do in a build file?

  
Chris Erskine
 
EDS Consulting Services
F5-EDS-001
2424 Garden of the Gods Rd
Colorado Springs, CO  80919
 
Phone: 719-535-6064
 
Phone:
mailto:chris.erskine@eds.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Rich [mailto:billrich@attglobal.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 10:42 AM
> To: 'Ant Users List'
> Subject: RE: winning the case for ANT
> 
> "[Erskine, Chris] I agree that Ant is a build tool.  As a build tool, it
> requires something to tell it what to do.  From
> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=script
> For computer science, it states "A simple program in a utility language or
> an application's proprietary language".  This describes what is contained
> in
> the build file.  This is a script.  A script is just a list of steps to be
> followed.  As such, Ant does use a scripting language which has been
> formatted using XML."
> 
> I beg to differ with the statement that the build file is a script. It is
> a
> set of independent rules (<target>s), not a list of steps. The author of
> the
> build file does not determine the order of execution, the Ant engine does.
> Yes, there is an artifact of the language whereby some dependency between
> <target>s (depends, if, unless,...) can be imposed, but, the fact still
> remains that the targets are independent by definition.
> 
> Thanks.  Bill
> 
> Bill Rich
> Wilandra Consulting LLC
> 1325 Addiewell Place
> San Jose, CA  95120-3905
> phone:      +1 408 268-2452
> mobile:     +1 408 410-9713
> Santa Cruz: +1 831 464-9007
> fax:        +1 413 669-9716
> bill@wilandra.com
> http://www.wilandra.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erskine, Chris [mailto:chris.erskine@eds.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 8:55 AM
> To: Ant Users List
> Subject: RE: winning the case for ANT
> 
> Please see below.
> 
> Chris Erskine
> 
> EDS Consulting Services
> F5-EDS-001
> 2424 Garden of the Gods Rd
> Colorado Springs, CO  80919
> 
> Phone: 719-535-6064
> 
> Phone:
> mailto:chris.erskine@eds.com
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:Simon.Chappell@landsend.com]
> > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 9:15 AM
> > To: Ant Users List
> > Subject: RE: winning the case for ANT
> >
> > I have to correct a few things here.
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Erskine, Chris [mailto:chris.erskine@eds.com]
> > >Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 7:33 AM
> > >To: Ant Users List
> > >Subject: RE: winning the case for ANT
> > >
> > >
> > >XML is just a standard way of formatting data.  In this case, the
> > >lines of data are script commands.
> >
> > No! Ant is not a scripting language. Perhaps it should have been, but
> > the reality is that Ant is a build tool. It uses deterministic logic
> > to build your application, given descriptions of your project and the
> > dependencies between parts. This works really well in most instances.
> > The biggest problem that I have seen with ant, is that people try to
> > use it like a scripting language and wonder why that causes problems.
> >
> [Erskine, Chris] I agree that Ant is a build tool.  As a build tool, it
> requires something to tell it what to do.  From
> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=script
> For computer science, it states "A simple program in a utility language or
> an application's proprietary language".  This describes what is contained
> in
> the build file.  This is a script.  A script is just a list of steps to be
> followed.  As such, Ant does use a scripting language which has been
> formatted using XML.
> 
> > >You could define this format as a scripting language.  Each tool has
> > >its own formatting syntax.  If you look at Make, it has its own
> > >format that has the problem of the first character on a line having
> > >to be a tab character to be a command for a target.
> >
> > Make is a fine tool, but it's not the best tool for Java applications.
> > I like make, wrinkles and all, but I use ant for my Java projects.
> 
> [Erskine, Chris] I agree fully.
> 
> >
> > >XML format is just the format that was chosen for ant to describe the
> > >scripting.  This is not a battle that will be won on merit since it
> > >sounds like it is a religious issue for this developer.
> >
> > Sounds like that project needs a good tech. lead to put their foot
> > down and make a decision. A tech lead needs to be somewhat like Linus
> > Torvalds, a benevolent dictator. :-)
> >
> 
> [Erskine, Chris] You have to play the political game.  Not always the best
> answer but for some projects, this is a fact of life.  This developer who
> does not want to us XML for scripting may be the tech lead.  Putting their
> foot down and making a decision may not be what is wanted here.  And, to
> prevent more ranting, this person may be a 'good' tech lead.  Just because
> a
> person does not use all of the best practices, does not make them bad.
> There can be a number of reasons for not using Ant.  There are also a
> number
> of issues with XML and although it is the current religion, it does not
> fit
> in all cases which I think the industry is starting to see and move
> somewhat
> away from it.  XML is just a tool.  Where it makes sense or can be used
> without big problems, use it.  But also, you need to know where it does
> not
> fit.
> 
> > >ANT is not an industry standard.  I do not even know if I
> >
> > It most certainly is a de-facto standard on the Java side of the
> > fence, especially on the open source projects. To say otherwise is to
> > display a certain amount of ignorance of the state of the Java world.
> >
> [Erskine, Chris] I agree that it is a de-facto standard.  It is not an
> industry standard.  There is not a standards body that has blessed ant as
> a
> standard.
> 
> > >could define it as
> > >a best practice although I think it might be close.  It is a tool
> > >that used by many people to automate their build and deployment of
> > >code.
> > > It is very
> > >good at what it does which is why it is a popular as it is.
> >
> > It's popular, it's used by many people ... sounds like a de-facto
> > standard to me.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > >Chris Erskine
> >
> > Simon
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > Simon P. Chappell                     simon.chappell@landsend.com
> > Java Programming Specialist                      www.landsend.com
> > Lands' End, Inc.                                   (608) 935-4526
> >
> > "Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent
> > and well-informed just to be undecided about them." - Laurence J.
> > Peter
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org For additional
> > commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org For additional
> commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org


Mime
View raw message