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From Erik Hatcher <e...@ehatchersolutions.com>
Subject Re: JDD's views on Ant after n years
Date Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:45:17 GMT
Wow... no more replies on this thread?  Or is my inbox broken?!  :)


On Apr 5, 2004, at 6:01 AM, Erik Hatcher wrote:

> And also two active Ant committers views here (follow link to Stefan's 
> blog):
>
> 	http://www.iseran.com/Steve/blog/archives/000103.html
>
> My take, which includes many in-person conversations about Ant with 
> JDD, is that XML was a very *pragmatic* choice at the time.  If it is 
> no longer the best way to do things, then we should evolve rather than 
> feel stuck in a rut of angle brackets.  Maven and Jelly aren't the 
> next big thing, IMO.  In fact, the creator of Jelly apologizes for it:
>
> 	http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/2004/03/26.html#a472
>
> and mentions Gravy.  Rake is also a cool alternative.  Gravy could be 
> the next step, maybe?  Obviously we're grappling with the boundaries 
> between scripting and being declarative.  The big system builds that I 
> have crafted have gotten ugly over time and end up being tougher to 
> maintain than I'd like.  Scripting has not been a need, although we do 
> have some code generation (Ruby + ERb) that we fire off with <exec>.  
> With the new power of Antlib/<macrodef>/<scriptdef>, so much of the 
> scripting can be hidden quite cleanly behind standard Ant task syntax.
>
> I'm agile, but pragmatic.  While the force of an established user base 
> is strong - we're dealing with "soft"ware here.  It is malleable and 
> we should be ready and willing to effect changes.  The lure of Maven, 
> Groovy, and the plethora of new frameworks, API's, tools out there 
> show that many are not adverse to change despite the hurdles.
>
> And the irony is, with JDD doing so much Cocoa Mac development now, 
> he's using make under the covers of Xcode :)
>
> 	Erik
>
>
>
> On Apr 2, 2004, at 9:19 PM, Drew Davidson wrote:
>
>> Just got this forwarded to me by a friend.  An interesting 
>> perspective on the original genesis and eventual evolution of Ant.
>>
>> 	http://x180.net/Articles/Java/AntAndXML.html
>>
>> It is reminicent of Stuart Feldman, author of the original make, who 
>> rethought using tab as a start character for the executable part of a 
>> target but couldn't change it because he already had a supported user 
>> base.
>>
>> - Drew
>> -- 
>> +---------------------------------+
>> < Drew Davidson | OGNL Technology >
>> +---------------------------------+
>> |  Email: drew@ognl.org          /
>> |    Web: http://www.ognl.org   /
>> |    Vox: (520) 531-1966       <
>> |    Fax: (520) 531-1965        \
>> | Mobile: (520) 405-2967         \
>> +---------------------------------+
>>
>>
>>
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