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From "Ilja Preuss" <>
Subject RE: [OT] Seeking input from the comunity at large.
Date Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:48:33 GMT
news wrote:

> All developers seem to release versions of java software
> targeted at specific OS's.

Are they? For example?

I think what is most often targeted at specific OS's is the packaging of
the software - wether you download an exe-installer, zip-file, tar.gz
file etc. The content is most often exactly the same.

> There are few that actually let
> you dowload a jar and go.

That's most often because a software system consists of more than just
the executable.

> I think the motivation was never to
> be able to run a single executable anywhere but rather to
> make it so that converting code between one OS to another was
> a trivial matter (or at least as trivial as can be)

I have never written a Java program which I needed to convert between

> 2) The byte code paradigm. Is it needed? Do we really need
> interpreted programs or is it just a hack to create pseudo OS
> agnostic constructs. (There are many other ways to make an OS
> agnostic) 

The byte code is not interpreted. It's compiled at runtime. Actually
that can be much more efficient than compiling at deploy time, because
at deploy time the compiler has neither full knowledge of the runtime
platform, nor of the runtime structure of the system.

> 3) One problem many languages have gotten into is that thier
> keywords are similar to their variable names. Java got
> smacked by this when they created a new keyword assert() in
> JDK 1.4. Now they are gunshy about creating another keyword
> called foreach. I propose a language to prefix keywords with
> a symbol to identify them and facilitate expandability. Could
> you live with code like the following?

I think this is actually a symptom, not the real "problem". Why do we
need new keywords, anyway? In Smalltalk, foreach would just be a new
method on the Block class (or something).

If you want a "better Java", perhaps you should take a look at the Nice

I'd think that for a new open source language to be successful, it
needed to be more different from the main stream - like Ruby, for

Just my 0.2,


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     Ilja Preuß                        
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